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Old 22nd October 2012, 02:53 PM   #1341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Rasmussen View Post
Are you a dog person?

OK, here goes.

The Nomex only needs one of the LCRs, so omit 2.2uF/0.12mH/1R5 (C13, L14 and R15).
Hello Joe. I have the nomex in hand..

Do I leave out (C13,L14 and R15) Values for these are 2.2uf/.33hm/2R5

Thanks, Joel
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Old 22nd October 2012, 02:57 PM   #1342
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Hello Joe,

I am new to this forum but I am in the process of building the xover for the JRMini (Nomex version). In your previous post, it stated to omit C13, L14 and R15 but they are valued at 2.2uf/0.33mh/2R5 instead of 2.2uf/0.12mh/1R5. I am a bit confused. Should I omit (C13, L14 and R15) or (C9, L10 and R11). Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Gene

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Rasmussen View Post
Are you a dog person?

OK, here goes.

The Nomex only needs one of the LCRs, so omit 2.2uF/0.12mH/1R5 (C13, L14 and R15).

So that's a good start getting rid of three components. The Nomex has a smoother roll-off above the crossover and that is why it isn't needed.

Because the Nomex cone is lighter, the tonal balance will be affected. But due to the same motor and cone profile has a similar response shape, this is why we should be able to get away with it. Normally I would prefer to computer model it, but knowing both of these drivers well - we can get away with it, but you need to do a little work yourself... read on....

The Tweeter's output needs to be increased slightly. The R16 should be decreased in value, I would suggest trying 4R. The other component is the main series cap C0 - it may be worth adding a 0.33uF in parallel (bumping up the value slightly) to 4.3uF approx.

These two values should be adjusted by ear, but only changed by the minimum amount that you can get away with. Indeed listen to it with the previous values first and see if you find the Tweter's output a little dull. If so, then decrease R16 and increase C0 by ear.

That's it. Let me know how it goes.

Cheers, Joe R.
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Old 22nd October 2012, 11:25 PM   #1343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel Wesseling View Post
Hello Joe. I have the nomex in hand..

Do I leave out (C13,L14 and R15) Values for these are 2.2uf/.33hm/2R5

Thanks, Joel
Hi Joel

Had to take another look, hope I haven't mislead anybody.

There is an extra and higher frequency LCR compensation that the Nomex can omit, so which one is it?

It is the higher frequency one and determined by "L" and "C".

They both have the same "C" value - so that is no indicator, but the "L" values are different - the "R" value does not affect frequency.

The smaller "L" value defines the higher frequency LCR and is 0.33/0.12 higher Octave frequency. So one is 2.75x higher in frequency.

So, here for sure:

OMIT:

C9 2.2uF
L10 0.12mH
R11 1.5R


KEEP:

C13 2.2uF
L14 0.33mH
R15 2.5R

That is definitive.

I would still try tuning the main series cap C0 to the Tweeter by ear.

Cheers, Joe R.
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Last edited by Joe Rasmussen; 22nd October 2012 at 11:28 PM.
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Old 23rd October 2012, 12:34 AM   #1344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Rasmussen View Post
Hi Joel

Had to take another look, hope I haven't mislead anybody.

There is an extra and higher frequency LCR compensation that the Nomex can omit, so which one is it?

It is the higher frequency one and determined by "L" and "C".

They both have the same "C" value - so that is no indicator, but the "L" values are different - the "R" value does not affect frequency.

The smaller "L" value defines the higher frequency LCR and is 0.33/0.12 higher Octave frequency. So one is 2.75x higher in frequency.

So, here for sure:

OMIT:

C9 2.2uF
L10 0.12mH
R11 1.5R


KEEP:

C13 2.2uF
L14 0.33mH
R15 2.5R

That is definitive.

I would still try tuning the main series cap C0 to the Tweeter by ear.

Cheers, Joe R.
Perfect! Thanks Joe

Also I will subtract the DCR of L14 from 2.5R to get the real value of R15


Joel
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Old 4th November 2012, 10:46 PM   #1345
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JR Mini comparison to JR Mini and JR mini

Member BrotherGene taking part tuning crossover with a variety parts selection with listening comparison

1)Poly with all Solen Parts
2)Poly with Mundorf silver cap for C0
3)Nomex with solen. C0 is 4.3uf and 4R3 for tweeter


All 3 Mini's sound amazing with bass that handles kick drum womps without sounding weak.. Driver Intergration seems perfect. Soundstage is holographic. Intstruments in right size proportion and placed in space..

The Nomex wins for speed and detail and clearer overall but without this comparison the poly clearly beats out speakers over $2k that I have heard..

Mundorf cap increases treble detail and air and tweeter seems louder.. We liked the sound of silver cap but skews balance off a little as woofer need to come up to tweeter level..

More parts swaps to come..
Also Play with port lenght and stuffing..
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Old 5th November 2012, 07:38 AM   #1346
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Default Progress

Progress update. Appreciate all your help fellow Elsinorians. For my first venture into speaker building i am happy. If i can be of any assistance to other novice builders, let me know.
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Old 18th November 2012, 02:57 AM   #1347
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Joe, Have become quite confused trying to play catchup. Can you post latest Xover drawing? I am wondering about 18mH inductor value and if it is still being called for.
Francis
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Old 18th November 2012, 06:24 AM   #1348
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Hi kingfisher

I think the answer is in this two posts :

The "Elsinore Project" Thread

The "Elsinore Project" Thread
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Old 18th November 2012, 03:28 PM   #1349
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Thanks Pascal, it has come to a matter of when and at what price I will build these speakers. I have been stalling for some time and between full time job and part time hobby, I waited for best scenario. Well since I am so delinquent with update improvements I will build pre-Bolser mod and enjoy as-is. From previous feedback it is STILL far better than what I can afford retail!
kingfisher
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Old 18th November 2012, 05:03 PM   #1350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfisher View Post
Thanks Pascal, it has come to a matter of when and at what price I will build these speakers. I have been stalling for some time and between full time job and part time hobby, I waited for best scenario. Well since I am so delinquent with update improvements I will build pre-Bolser mod and enjoy as-is. From previous feedback it is STILL far better than what I can afford retail!
kingfisher
I was at TAVES this year and felt nothing there outperformed the Elsinore..
I blame some of it for bad setup and poor sources but in the best sounding rooms never did I feel " If I had the money I would take that over the Elsinore"

Pm Sent.
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