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Old 4th October 2012, 11:50 AM   #1321
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I'm getting even more intrigued.
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Old 4th October 2012, 01:18 PM   #1322
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Francois G View Post
Joel,

Where did you get this JR Mini design you posted in #1306? I've searched but can't find the original. Please help.

I bought 2 extra Elsinore woofers and had been waiting for Joe's center design. Is this it?

Francois

P.S. The waveguides I bought from you look great and perform very well. Thanks again.

Hi Francois,

Read Pages 5,6 and 7 on this Thread for Mini design

The Mini woofer is 5.25" and can be used as a center but not center your refering to..

The Mini's are very good and imagine as good as or better than any mini monitor I have heard or owned and have an important advantage in another way.. The woofer dosent bottom out very easy.. In fact I can crank them well beyond what I would call comfortable levels before it starts to shows signs of being over powered.. The other small speakers I know of had a problem in this area.. Conservatively I think they sound like $2500


Have to consider nomex now.. Just thought of question for Joe

Joel
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Old 4th October 2012, 01:27 PM   #1323
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Originally Posted by Joe Rasmussen View Post
I wish it was that simple. I would have designed them somewhat diffferently now. Keep in mind, no Waveguide, and forn now I cannot see me designing speakers without Waveguides, knowing what I know now.

It's not that they won't be good.

Cheers, Joe
There amazing now..

My question should have been:
Based on the changes you suggest which version do you think you would prefer? Poly or Nomex?

Joel
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Old 4th October 2012, 11:13 PM   #1324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel Wesseling View Post
Poly or Nomex?
Definitely the Nomex - it is cleaner in the area of 5-10KHz and also higher sensitivity because the cone is lighter - this translates into less heat in the VC as the VC is the same for both drivers - this is important in my way of thinking. So comparatively the Nomex should suffer less non-linear thermal distortion, NTD - but in this area it as a single driver cannot match the Elsinores, which has incredibly low NTD.

NTD is a contentious area as it has been pointed out that the change and build-up in heat is too slow to show up in drivers to show up at audio frequencies. Sorry if I am starting to sound a bit preachy, but this is one of those things that occupy my thinking a lot, maybe can even be desribed as a pet theory, but a rational one IMO. http://http://www.customanalogue.com...lsinore_24.htm

Cheers, Joe R.
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Old 5th October 2012, 02:23 AM   #1325
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Your reasoning about thermal issues is one of the items I was thinking about when I built my actives. I used all Eton drivers. One of the reasons was they are used in the Adams Monitors which I like a lot. Thermal distortion is looked at closely in a studio, I figured if the Etons can handle what happens to them in a Adams. My house is easy.

Another thing about these Elsinores that is elegant. I gotta figure a way to build a pair. Maybe next spring.
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Old 6th October 2012, 12:44 AM   #1326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Rasmussen View Post
Definitely the Nomex - it is cleaner in the area of 5-10KHz and also higher sensitivity because the cone is lighter - this translates into less heat in the VC as the VC is the same for both drivers - this is important in my way of thinking. So comparatively the Nomex should suffer less non-linear thermal distortion, NTD - but in this area it as a single driver cannot match the Elsinores, which has incredibly low NTD.

NTD is a contentious area as it has been pointed out that the change and build-up in heat is too slow to show up in drivers to show up at audio frequencies. Sorry if I am starting to sound a bit preachy, but this is one of those things that occupy my thinking a lot, maybe can even be desribed as a pet theory, but a rational one IMO. http://http://www.customanalogue.com...lsinore_24.htm

Cheers, Joe R.

The Nomex it is.. I'll let you know how it turns out..

Joel
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Old 6th October 2012, 01:52 AM   #1327
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Joel, help, I'm confused. Can you please clarify which woofers you are talking about? The one in the xover schematic is the 830860. Which one are you replacing it with?
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Old 6th October 2012, 07:34 AM   #1328
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prairieboy View Post
Joel, help, I'm confused. Can you please clarify which woofers you are talking about? The one in the xover schematic is the 830860. Which one are you replacing it with?
The Nomex version is 830873. http://meniscusaudio.com/images/830873.pdf

I note something else, unlike the larger 6.5" drivers where the lighter cone means the Nomex is a bit more sensitive, but that is not the case with 5 1/4" - so other than omitting the LCR as described above, leave everything as is. But it may still be worth tweaking the main series cap to the Tweeter. The biggest difference between the drivers can likely be balanced by adjusting its value bu ear.

Cheers, Joe R.
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Last edited by Joe Rasmussen; 6th October 2012 at 07:39 AM.
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Old 6th October 2012, 11:04 AM   #1329
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I note there is also a 832873, but the spec sheet, even the measurements are exactly the same as the older (?) 830873.

The original JLTi Mini used 830860 - the discussion here is changing from that Plastic cone to the Nomex version, either 830873 or 832873.

Cheers, Joe R.
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Last edited by Joe Rasmussen; 6th October 2012 at 11:08 AM.
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Old 6th October 2012, 01:59 PM   #1330
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Spent I lot of time trying to grain fill with shellac on Mini's but it's a real PITA

All mini's will now get clear epoxy fill or paste filler and then I'm comfortable doing one of these methods on the current Paduak Elsinore

Joe, is a matching MTM Mini center possible??

Thanks, Joel
Attached Images
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File Type: jpg Paduak Sanded.jpg (244.2 KB, 318 views)
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