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Old 6th February 2007, 06:39 AM   #1
kmj is offline kmj  Sweden
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Default help choosing speakers again >90dB wanted

Hello again, after I found a few suitable speakerprojects for my friend I began to think that I myself listen to less and less music every day, how come?

The answer that I came up with is that even if I like music like Norah Jones and such most of my collection is made up of heavy metal and rock. Even if Norah, the little cutie, sounds great the heavier stuff doesn't sound as good. So, I put the blame on my Herukas (fullrange with fostex 168ez sigma).

Anyway, I need something with a little more drive in the netherregions combined with a high efficiency suitable for smaller tubeamps and KlassA SS's, say around 10W.

I've found some alternatives and I was hoping that you guys could point me in the right direction.

First of, we have the C17 by Troels, an MTM floorstander.
Then theres two from Zaph, the Waveguide TMM and the Vifa/seas MTM.

What do you think of these? My initial gut-feeling is the one by Troels but pionters and comments are welcome

Of, one more thing, I don't have a big room (approx 5x4m) and the speakers will be standing about 20-30cm from the wall.

Edit:
To clarify even more, I usually listen at moderate levels since I live in an apartment and dislike disturbing the neighbours even if I crank the volume up every now and then. Due to the same reason I'm not a big fan of the really deep floor rumbling bass which is the best way for my neighbours to get me pissed.

What I want is a pair of speakers that makes if fun to listen to music. The kind that makes you want to have a beer or eight and stomp your foot rather that sit in the sofa and just listen.

Perhaps a more laid back and forgiving kind, I don't really know what I'm fishing for here.
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Old 6th February 2007, 07:50 AM   #2
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Pro drivers.

Find a good 8 or 10" midrange, then fill in top and bottom.
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Old 6th February 2007, 07:58 AM   #3
Ap is offline Ap
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Well if you want something exciting then you dont want laidback.
I would look at the David/Jericho project (Wilson Watt clone).
Its high efficiency in a compact floorstander.
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Old 6th February 2007, 09:12 AM   #4
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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Hi,

Have you considered adding a couple of active subs ?

/sreten.
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Old 6th February 2007, 11:39 AM   #5
kmj is offline kmj  Sweden
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Quote:
Have you considered adding a couple of active subs ?
Yes and no. Nu subs and no large elements, below 7". I want some regular sized floorstanders and they don't have to be a kind of metalspeakers, more a pair of "regular" that deliver an OK sound. And I rather have firm bass than very deep.
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Old 6th February 2007, 03:28 PM   #6
kmj is offline kmj  Sweden
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Well, if there's the posibility of building the subs in the same cabinet as the speakers (like those from ZAPH) then subs are a possibility, but a later one.
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Old 6th February 2007, 03:56 PM   #7
pacman1 is offline pacman1  United Kingdom
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Default Efficient Speakers

Hi Kmj.

I must say that you are pushing things a little expecting just 10 watts to drive compact floorstanders to high levels due to the inherant lowish sensitivity of such designs, the best of which need at least 15 or 20 watts but if this is of any help, I recently traded my Rega Pre/Poer amp for a Lumley reference st40/pp40 valve amp kicking out 40 watts per channel and successfully matched them with Proac's superb new Studio 140's. This is a great match due to the speakers efficiency of 91 db/1 Watt/ 1m and the fact that their ports are tuned to 25 Hz in room. The result is amazing. Although my 85w Regas were good and had excellent grip, I have found no problems at all with the valve amp driving the Proac's to ear splitting levels and they are well suited to rock. They stand about 1100mm high and are a compact 2 1/2 way design employing a silk dome tweeter and two long throw 165mm (about 61/2 inch) Bass/Midrange drivers. Dont be fooled by the small drivers. I listen in a 20 ft by 12 ft room and the Lumley valve combo will drive the Proacs very loud with the amp volume at the 10 O'clock position. These cost about 1450 here in the UK. Another great alternative if you can find them are the Castle Howard S2's which were designed with valve amps in mind and again are slimish florstaners close to 90 Watt sensitivity and use quarter wave length tube tuning (and upward firing mid for better imaging). Again, superb sounding and cost about 500 second hand. For best results, stick to larger more efficient drivers if you can and dont rule out older designs such as the excellent Wharfdale E70's or E50's which can both be driven VERY loud by even 5 or 10 watts per channel due to their high sensitivity of 94 dB (cost about 150 second hand). They also sound great.

With the Proacs, their design impedence loading is close to 4 ohms, so if you have a 4 ohm tap on your outputs use this. Dont worry if you haven't. They present a fairly easy 4 ohm load compared to some.

Cheers
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Old 6th February 2007, 04:30 PM   #8
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Old 6th February 2007, 05:18 PM   #9
kmj is offline kmj  Sweden
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Quote:
must say that you are pushing things a little expecting just 10 watts to drive compact floorstanders to high levels due to the inherant lowish sensitivity of such designs, the best of which need at least 15 or 20 watts but if this is of any help, I recently traded my Rega Pre/Poer amp for a Lumley reference st40/pp40 valve amp kicking out 40 watts per channel and successfully matched them with Proac's superb new Studio 140's.
Ok, 10W was a figure i took out of the air just because my present amp gives about 10W and are driving my 94dB herukas.

If I say something like this:

If I change my 95dB (8ohms) fullrangers for a MTM with approx the same stats, is there a chance that this will improve the bass and give a bit more bite? If we are using the same amp in both cases.
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Old 7th February 2007, 11:30 AM   #10
pacman1 is offline pacman1  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally posted by kmj


Ok, 10W was a figure i took out of the air just because my present amp gives about 10W and are driving my 94dB herukas.

If I say something like this:

If I change my 95dB (8ohms) fullrangers for a MTM with approx the same stats, is there a chance that this will improve the bass and give a bit more bite? If we are using the same amp in both cases.

The bass response depends on a little more than efficiency unfortunately. I'm not familiar with your current speakers but even modest amplification should get low notes (although not necessarily "speed" or bass control). Its well worth checking more than the basic stats for the MTMs. If you can get hold of a frequency response chart from the suppliers and check with them how your room size could affect loading, then provided they're tuned for lower in room bass (ported to peak at a decent bass level) the amplification you intend to use should drive them with ease. I'd be surprised though if a slim floorstander could give 94dB though as the longer throw design and stronger magnets coupled with a smaller enclosure usually needs greater power nomatter what the manufacturers claim, its basic physics. If it helps you, check out Proac's website here in the UK and look up the Studio 140's. If these are similar in spec and design to the MTM,s then something like a 25w/channel valve amp should drive them with ease. As I mentioned, my 40 watt Lumley valve amp doesnt even break into a sweat with the proacs and delivers great bass. Nirvana's Raw and Unplugged album played through this set up is the nearest to a live performance I've ever heard. The best advice though is to see if you can audition at home. Thats what I did, after finding a friendly dealer. Hope this helps and good luck!
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