Usher 2 way at Parts Express

Rizznits · 1st February 2007, 08:08 PM

First off, I tried to do a quick search on this as I didn't want to do a repeat post, and found nil, so here goes.

I have planned on making Zaph's all metal speakers (L18/27TBFCG) to the point that I have bought the tweets online and the woofer from Madisound. I've been really pumped about it, until I found this online.

http://www.partsexpress.com/projects...r701/index.cfm

Looking at the results of Mr. Krutke's test on the Usher woofer makes this setup look quite tempting. Now that PE has a sale on the woofers and tweeters, the driver cost is almost the same as the all metal Seas system.

If you look at the overal component price roll up the total cost looks near what it would be for the seas setup.
http://www.partsexpress.com/projects...TOKEN=35154673

Bigger cabinets of course, but they are on sale:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshow...02-732&scqty=2

I don't believe John tested the Usher tweeter, so I'd have to do some research on it, but does anyone have any opinions on this setup?

If all things were relatively equal, I'd like having the smaller box (with the Seas setup), and since I have done so much reading at Zaph's website and he is a fellow Wisconsinite I'd prefer to do his setup.
But, if this Usher setup is that much better, I think I'd be stupid not to go that route. Returning the L18s to Madisound would be easy (girlfriend is in Madison) but I would have to sell the tweets (which wouldn't be that hard, I guess).

I should preface this by saying that this would be my first speaker build, and I previously had a set of Polk RT55s, so I'm not exactly at audiophile status. I still don't own a house, but have a relatively large bedroom (12*16 with a 10' peaked ceiling).

I don't have the exact details in front of me, but I have an Onkyo 70x5 amplifier and a powered Velodyne 12" sub that I bought when I worked at Circuit City. Not sure if those are worthy to be used with these. Thinking about making a new sub out of Peerless or Dayton subs, but I'm taking this one project at a time.

My best guess is that I wouldn't be able to tell the difference, but those Ushers look awfully nice on the distortion plots, and I am a sucker for a good deal.

If this has been discussed before, please feel free to direct me to the topic.

Thanks in advance to anyone who wants to weigh in,
Ryan

cotdt · 2nd February 2007, 06:31 AM

I would say go for the Ushers. Lower distortion and higher output. It's actually got 10mm of linear xmax, and paper sounds better to me than metal. They will pound very hard, hopefully it won't snap your neck!

cotdt · 2nd February 2007, 06:33 AM

it's on sale right now too!

ttan98 · 2nd February 2007, 07:07 AM

don't know about the tweeter, the woofer is very good, see this site:

http://www.markk.claub.net/Testing/w...ew_7_tests.htm

the test is the latest..

cotdt · 2nd February 2007, 07:15 AM

the tweeter is basically the same as the Dayton Reference RS28A, but textile.

BobPM · 3rd February 2007, 08:09 PM

I built the Zaph L18 with upgraded crossover parts and am very satisfied with the speakers. I spent last weekend comparing them to a friends BESL 5 MT and was very happy with the comparison. The BESL's are built in basically the same box with the Seas Excel drivers. The L18 lacked a tiny amount of the detail of the Seas Excel Millenium drivers (by detail I mean the ability to resolve specific instruments in the background) and lacked some of the "air" of the BESL's. (Of course some consider "air" to be a function of high order distortion, so take that for what its worth also.)

Overall, the L18 sounded very neutral and were close to the BESL's in performance.

You also noted that you were interested in the Usher design in smaller box. If you click on the Mark K link to the test referenced above, you might note that Mark designed a smaller monitor that uses the better Usher 9950 tweeter.

See: www.markk.claub.net/usher_index.htm

TerryO · 4th February 2007, 01:57 AM

Kevin Haskins of DIYCable/Exodus Audio has used the Usher tweeter in his line of kits. He tried a variety of tweeters and settled on the Usher. He has told me that it's rugged, sounds very good and is easy to work with. I sat in during the crossover selection session, when 5 prototype crossovers were used before the final selection was made. He later told me that, after extended listening, he made a small change before he went with the production version. I thought at the time that the Usher was silky smooth, extended and coherent. It doesn't seem to call attention to itself, which I presume to be due to an excellent crossover paired with a tweeter that experiences no problems with whatever is thrown it's way.
The gist of all this is that the Usher is an excellent device, sounds very good and seems to be fairly easy to use. If the price is reasonable, and that is a rather subjective issue, then by all means don't hesitate to use the Usher.

Best Regards,
TerryO

sreten · 4th February 2007, 12:34 PM

http://www.partsexpress.com/projects...r701/index.cfm

Hmmm......

the write up by the director of marketing, unbiased then ?

The design appears to have no baffle step compensation,
(its not the only design at PE that disregards this)
which means it is not comparable to Zaph's L18 / 27TBFCG.

/sreten.

tktran303 · 4th February 2007, 12:38 PM

Written by whoever wrote that webpage, but designed by Joe D'Appolito.

The crossover schematic shows a 1.8mH inductor in series with the midwoofer- definitely baffle step compensation.

sreten · 4th February 2007, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tktran303

The crossover schematic shows a 1.8mH inductor in series
with the midwoofer- definitely baffle step compensation.

No. A driver that is 86dB 100Hz to 1KHz on a baffle cannot be used
in a speaker that is 86dB / 2.83V and have baffle step compensation.
(84.5dB characteristic sensitivity according to Zaph).

The driver itself appears to have a rising 500Hz to 2KHz
response, which presumably is what the 1.8mH is for.

/sreten.

1st February 2007, 08:08 PM	#1
Rizznits diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: 'Sconsin	Usher 2 way at Parts Express First off, I tried to do a quick search on this as I didn't want to do a repeat post, and found nil, so here goes. I have planned on making Zaph's all metal speakers (L18/27TBFCG) to the point that I have bought the tweets online and the woofer from Madisound. I've been really pumped about it, until I found this online. http://www.partsexpress.com/projects...r701/index.cfm Looking at the results of Mr. Krutke's test on the Usher woofer makes this setup look quite tempting. Now that PE has a sale on the woofers and tweeters, the driver cost is almost the same as the all metal Seas system. If you look at the overal component price roll up the total cost looks near what it would be for the seas setup. http://www.partsexpress.com/projects...TOKEN=35154673 Bigger cabinets of course, but they are on sale: http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshow...02-732&scqty=2 I don't believe John tested the Usher tweeter, so I'd have to do some research on it, but does anyone have any opinions on this setup? If all things were relatively equal, I'd like having the smaller box (with the Seas setup), and since I have done so much reading at Zaph's website and he is a fellow Wisconsinite I'd prefer to do his setup. But, if this Usher setup is that much better, I think I'd be stupid not to go that route. Returning the L18s to Madisound would be easy (girlfriend is in Madison) but I would have to sell the tweets (which wouldn't be that hard, I guess). I should preface this by saying that this would be my first speaker build, and I previously had a set of Polk RT55s, so I'm not exactly at audiophile status. I still don't own a house, but have a relatively large bedroom (12*16 with a 10' peaked ceiling). I don't have the exact details in front of me, but I have an Onkyo 70x5 amplifier and a powered Velodyne 12" sub that I bought when I worked at Circuit City. Not sure if those are worthy to be used with these. Thinking about making a new sub out of Peerless or Dayton subs, but I'm taking this one project at a time. My best guess is that I wouldn't be able to tell the difference, but those Ushers look awfully nice on the distortion plots, and I am a sucker for a good deal. If this has been discussed before, please feel free to direct me to the topic. Thanks in advance to anyone who wants to weigh in, Ryan

4th February 2007, 01:57 AM	#7
TerryO diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Seattle,Wash.	Usher 9950 tweeter Kevin Haskins of DIYCable/Exodus Audio has used the Usher tweeter in his line of kits. He tried a variety of tweeters and settled on the Usher. He has told me that it's rugged, sounds very good and is easy to work with. I sat in during the crossover selection session, when 5 prototype crossovers were used before the final selection was made. He later told me that, after extended listening, he made a small change before he went with the production version. I thought at the time that the Usher was silky smooth, extended and coherent. It doesn't seem to call attention to itself, which I presume to be due to an excellent crossover paired with a tweeter that experiences no problems with whatever is thrown it's way. The gist of all this is that the Usher is an excellent device, sounds very good and seems to be fairly easy to use. If the price is reasonable, and that is a rather subjective issue, then by all means don't hesitate to use the Usher. Best Regards, TerryO __________________ "If you have to ask why, then you're probably on the right track." quote from Terry Olson's DIYaudio Forum application

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2nd February 2007, 06:31 AM	#2
cotdt diyAudio Member Join Date: Oct 2005	I would say go for the Ushers. Lower distortion and higher output. It's actually got 10mm of linear xmax, and paper sounds better to me than metal. They will pound very hard, hopefully it won't snap your neck!

2nd February 2007, 06:33 AM	#3
cotdt diyAudio Member Join Date: Oct 2005	it's on sale right now too!

2nd February 2007, 07:07 AM	#4
ttan98 diyAudio Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Melb	don't know about the tweeter, the woofer is very good, see this site: http://www.markk.claub.net/Testing/w...ew_7_tests.htm the test is the latest..

2nd February 2007, 07:15 AM	#5
cotdt diyAudio Member Join Date: Oct 2005	the tweeter is basically the same as the Dayton Reference RS28A, but textile.

3rd February 2007, 08:09 PM	#6
BobPM diyAudio Member Join Date: Aug 2005	I built the Zaph L18 with upgraded crossover parts and am very satisfied with the speakers. I spent last weekend comparing them to a friends BESL 5 MT and was very happy with the comparison. The BESL's are built in basically the same box with the Seas Excel drivers. The L18 lacked a tiny amount of the detail of the Seas Excel Millenium drivers (by detail I mean the ability to resolve specific instruments in the background) and lacked some of the "air" of the BESL's. (Of course some consider "air" to be a function of high order distortion, so take that for what its worth also.) Overall, the L18 sounded very neutral and were close to the BESL's in performance. You also noted that you were interested in the Usher design in smaller box. If you click on the Mark K link to the test referenced above, you might note that Mark designed a smaller monitor that uses the better Usher 9950 tweeter. See: www.markk.claub.net/usher_index.htm

4th February 2007, 12:34 PM	#8
sreten diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Brighton UK	http://www.partsexpress.com/projects...r701/index.cfm Hmmm...... the write up by the director of marketing, unbiased then ? The design appears to have no baffle step compensation, (its not the only design at PE that disregards this) which means it is not comparable to Zaph's L18 / 27TBFCG. /sreten.

4th February 2007, 12:38 PM	#9
tktran303 diyAudio Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Perth, WA	Written by whoever wrote that webpage, but designed by Joe D'Appolito. The crossover schematic shows a 1.8mH inductor in series with the midwoofer- definitely baffle step compensation.