Speaker help rebuilding a console radio

[uzor]

I'm working on rebuilding a console radio that I picked up at the local GoodWill. I will be replacing the electronics as well as the speakers in the unit, and wanted some recommendation as to the speakers I will be using. Here's what I have to work with at the moment:

Front (disregard the dark spots on the cloth, that's just because I got it wet wiping it down):


Back:


On the back side, the section the speakers are on is 15.5" high by 12" wide, but as it is now, the speakers are not separated from the main part of the console. I have about 13" of depth to work with. The current woofer is 8" and the tweeter is 3" (edge of metal to edge of metal).

I did a bit of brainstorming with some folks on a computer site I visit, and came up with PartsExpress as a good DIY vendor. I also got a recommendation for their house brand, Dayton Audio, as a good low-buck driver. Based on that, here's what I'm thinking of getting:

Tweeters (x2): http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...TOKEN=32503534

Woofers (x2): http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshow...TOKEN=32503534

Crossovers (x2): http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...TOKEN=32503534

Subwoofer (x1): http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshow...TOKEN=32503534

I'm going to get started on mocking up some speaker enclosures out of cardboard (will be mounted inside the console) based on the project ideas on the woofer and subwoofer product pages. Before I got too far into the process, though, I wanted to get some thoughts from you all as far as speaker choices and such. For what I'm going to be doing, do these look like decent choices? Have a better idea in the same price range?

Thanks in advance!

[sdclc126]

One thing you could do is build a kit or design, using the proper cabinet size and crossover to maximize the sound quality. Then you could cut out sections of the front baffle on the console and insert the speakers into them. Might be a lot easier (with better sonic results) than trying to mod the inside of the console to make enclosures.

You will also want to consider amplification - I don't think vintage console systems had a lot of power, and you will want it. I don't know if your intention is to do a restoration that is "true to the original" or just keep the vintage look on the outside while upgrading the internals - but I wouldn't consider only putting in new speaker components without also providing them with adequate amplification.

My 2 c.

[uzor]

Originally posted by sdclc126

One thing you could do is build a kit or design, using the proper cabinet size and crossover to maximize the sound quality. Then you could cut out sections of the front baffle on the console and insert the speakers into them. Might be a lot easier (with better sonic results) than trying to mod the inside of the console to make enclosures.

Assuming all the walls are covered by something like Acousta-stuf, and the enclosure has the same internal volume, how much does the shape of the enclosure affect the sound of the speaker? (i.e. from a rectangular prism to a trapezoidal prism) At the very least, though, checking out their kits for part pairings and sizes is probably a good idea for reference even if I don't go that route entirely. My original plan, though, was to make separate, self contained enclosures matching the cabinet dimensions while maintaining the same internal volume as the sample project design, and then basically just "sliding" them into the cabinet before attaching them permanently.

Originally posted by sdclc126

You will also want to consider amplification - I don't think vintage console systems had a lot of power, and you will want it. I don't know if your intention is to do a restoration that is "true to the original" or just keep the vintage look on the outside while upgrading the internals - but I wouldn't consider only putting in new speaker components without also providing them with adequate amplification.

My 2 c.

I'm basically doing that second one - just keeping the vintage looks. Was planning on using something like this Onkyo receiver to drive the mains, along with a plate amp from Parts Express (though I have no idea which one I should get to match my sub choice - was going to get around to that question in here as well) to drive the sub. Figured I'd try to stick to asking one question at a time.

[Pano]

Looks like a fun project! Don't throw away those drivers, there are a number of us who might want them.
See this tread.
Old Console drivers in open baffles

I don't think the woofer you picked will marry well with the tweeter. The tweeter is well known and a good one - I like it and use it - but it seems that the Dayton woofer you picked would need to be crossed over too low for the tweeter. Someone esle here may have used that woofer. Let's see if you get any advice. Someone here is bound to know that woofer.

Where do you plan to put the sub?

Also, what sort of sound are you aiming for? A vintage sound in line with the look of the console, or a more "modern" bass thumping sound?

[uzor]

Originally posted by panomaniac

Looks like a fun project! Don't throw away those drivers, there are a number of us who might want them.
See this tread.
Old Console drivers in open baffles

Neat. I figured I'd post a better pic of the woofers once I pulled them out to see if anyone could tell me more about them. Might read through the rest of that thread and chime in there (just read the 1st page).

Originally posted by panomaniac

I don't think the woofer you picked will marry well with the tweeter. The tweeter is well known and a good one - I like it and use it - but it seems that the Dayton woofer you picked would need to be crossed over too low for the tweeter. Someone esle here may have used that woofer. Let's see if you get any advice. Someone here is bound to know that woofer.

Where do you plan to put the sub?

Also, what sort of sound are you aiming for? A vintage sound in line with the look of the console, or a more "modern" bass thumping sound?

Good to hear (as odd as that sounds) about not being sure of my woofer choice, that's why I'm here! How close to the edge of a speaker's range can you get before it is going "too far" when crossing over to another speaker like that?

As for the sub, I was planning to put the console up on feet (3" or so), and mount the sub in the center firing downwards. (In my research so far that seems to be an approved arrangement, even though it seems counter-intuitive to me at first.)

Sound-wise, I guess I'd have to say something more modern. For my regular stereo/home theater I have some JBL floorstanding towers that I bought in the 80's when I had a job and no bills, so that's kinda what I have to compare it to, though these will be going in a different place in the house.

[uzor]

Not sure about rules concerning double posting...couldn't find anything about it, so I hope this isn't against the rules. I got the radio cleaned out of all the old components and stuff, so I decided to post a pic of the woofers that I pulled out of it, since there was some interest in them.

Here ya go:



If anyone wants/needs a closeup of the numbers on the back, just let me know. I took some pics of the cleared out cabinet too, and can post that too to give a better idea of how big the space is altogether without the rest of the clutter.

[Pano]

Thanks for the pix of the drivers. Would like to see the empty cabinet, too.

I agree with sdclc126 that you should look around for a kit. Madisound, Parts Express and our own Zaph Audio, among others all have great kits.

Since you are going with a sub, you may want to find a sealed 2 way kit that will fit inside your console in the space left over after the sub. Shouldn't be hard to do. Will you be using a plate amp on the sub?

You might have to build only 2 or 3 walls for the main speakers, and you don't even have to make them pretty.

Dig around for a kit and tell us what you find. Happy hunting!

[uzor]

Originally posted by panomaniac
Thanks for the pix of the drivers. Would like to see the empty cabinet, too.

I agree with sdclc126 that you should look around for a kit. Madisound, Parts Express and our own Zaph Audio, among others all have great kits.

Since you are going with a sub, you may want to find a sealed 2 way kit that will fit inside your console in the space left over after the sub. Shouldn't be hard to do. Will you be using a plate amp on the sub?

You might have to build only 2 or 3 walls for the main speakers, and you don't even have to make them pretty.

Dig around for a kit and tell us what you find. Happy hunting!

I'll browse around those sites and have a look at the kits that they are offering.

What are the advantages/considerations for going with a sealed enclosure for the satellites vs. ported? For the sub? I had kinda assumed that I would be porting all 3 channels - satellites because, well, the main satellites on my stereo now are ported, and the sub because of some of the initial speaker discussion I had on the other board I mentioned, before I came here (had something to do with the design and sound of a down-firing sub, IIRC).

I am planning on using a plate amp with the sub, but hadn't picked anything out yet, mostly because I don't know what I need.

[uzor]

Since I had a chance to look around the sites mentioned previously, I figured I'd update a few things together. Here's the empty cabinet from the back, as requested. I can post a pic of the open cut-outs under the lid that I'm going to need to fill/replace if anyone wants to see it. For scale, the cut-outs that you see are for 8" woofers.



Speaking of seeing it, I must say that I am a little disappointed that out of 130+ page views, only 2 people have any kind of opinion or thoughts at all.

Anyways, on with the show (what there is of it). From the sites mentioned earlier, I really only found one kit that seemed to fit my needs. It is the Cygnet MK2 Kit from Madisound Speaker Components, Inc. You can see the project page here, and the order page (parts only version) here ($270). If anyone has a favorite kit vendor not mentioned above, please drop in and mention it, as having more than 1 choice to pick from would be nice (unless someone can vouch for this one).

The one thing that I am wondering about adapting this kit to my project is that of porting. The project page has a wide, flat port built into the bottom of the cabinet. Does anyone have any suggestions as to implement something more fitting this project?

That's all for now...

[unclejed613]

i just repaired a Magnavox with almost identical guts as that Zenith..... interesting project. the original designers weren't too interested in the sound as you can tell by the design of the speakers. the Maggie i worked on had an amp with dual npn output transistors driven by phase splitter transformers. the date code on the speakers, if i'm reading it correctly is early 1982, which matches roughly the cabinet design. those tweeters were x-ed over with just a capacitor. looks like you might just barely have enough room under the woofers for a rectangular horn type mid. you definitely have enough room for a box behind the woofers...... are you going to port it?

with that driver you had the link to, you're going to need a spacer ring to keep the suspension roll from rubbing on the baffle, that is, if you keep those vertical slats on the baffle.

if you want it to remain looking original, remember to leave room for the turntable guts........ and remember to turn the bass down when you use the turntable. i know those old garrards had way too much stylus force, but i've even seen them jump the groove from too much bass