I have been reading on here on every possible system configuration from single driver to WwMmTTmMwW systems 
But one thing i wasn't able to put a finger on,
is how to cope with a "big" room factor when designing a stereo system.
At my parent's place, we have a 18' high living room that extends in a dinner room for a total of near 40' length.... we are using my old Mirage OM-9 system
wich is seriously underpowered by a sony receiver
but still cannnot cope at all with the quantity of air it has to move around to get to us.
So i will be designing systems that i will use in my new house ( building starts this spring )
and my living room/dinner room will be again adjacent and will have a 12-14' ceiling and lots of air to breathe
( 25' by 30' approx )
What is the approach or compromises we have to make,
when designing sytem for use in that kind of environement?
Can i use more drivers on each side?
that will lead to complications ( comb filtering and such ...) i guess, is there any way to pass around this ?
I was considering a simple MT configuration, assisted by a simple subwoofer, since this system will be fore musical ( i will have a complete seperater theater room for movies with big and lots of drivers )
So this particular system will require quality over quantity, but still be usable...
and that is where it comes to be standard
( and not specific to my case )
As we are almost all looking for performance in sound quality first; but what to do when coping with defficient subjective size of loudspeaker system VS room size it has to energize ?
What if one wants to be able to listen to jazz while eating at moderate/low level, and at the same time be able to "power" a small "lounge" like feeling with group of people ??
I do not want specific answers to my case please,
as this wouldn't help much others with the same question as i ...
but rather a path to follow when choosing compromises
and thei 2 sides
thanks all for your sharing of knowledge and time
But one thing i wasn't able to put a finger on,
is how to cope with a "big" room factor when designing a stereo system.
At my parent's place, we have a 18' high living room that extends in a dinner room for a total of near 40' length.... we are using my old Mirage OM-9 system
wich is seriously underpowered by a sony receiver
but still cannnot cope at all with the quantity of air it has to move around to get to us.
So i will be designing systems that i will use in my new house ( building starts this spring )
and my living room/dinner room will be again adjacent and will have a 12-14' ceiling and lots of air to breathe
( 25' by 30' approx )
What is the approach or compromises we have to make,
when designing sytem for use in that kind of environement?
Can i use more drivers on each side?
that will lead to complications ( comb filtering and such ...) i guess, is there any way to pass around this ?
I was considering a simple MT configuration, assisted by a simple subwoofer, since this system will be fore musical ( i will have a complete seperater theater room for movies with big and lots of drivers
)So this particular system will require quality over quantity, but still be usable...
and that is where it comes to be standard
( and not specific to my case )
As we are almost all looking for performance in sound quality first; but what to do when coping with defficient subjective size of loudspeaker system VS room size it has to energize ?
What if one wants to be able to listen to jazz while eating at moderate/low level, and at the same time be able to "power" a small "lounge" like feeling with group of people ??
I do not want specific answers to my case please,
as this wouldn't help much others with the same question as i ...
but rather a path to follow when choosing compromises
and thei 2 sides
thanks all for your sharing of knowledge and time
The first thing you need to do is set your goals and prioritize them by what's most important for your listening taste/requirements. Than you will needd to try and quantify those goals so comparisons can be made. Than you can start building a list of the charateristics/specification of the speakers that may possibly meet those goals. This will also allow you to discard speaker setups that will clearly not fit the bill.
CAUTION!:
This is a pragmatic approach geared to minimize experimentation and redundancy and may cause the audio fanatics that frequent this forum undo stress so care must be taken when implementing this approach.
CAUTION!:
This is a pragmatic approach geared to minimize experimentation and redundancy and may cause the audio fanatics that frequent this forum undo stress so care must be taken when implementing this approach.
The "direct requirements" are the quantification of your goals. For example: calculate and layout the size of your room and determine the possible seating for casual and serious listening. How far and in what direction is the listener in each case? At what SPL do you want to listen at each of the listening positions? What are the important listening factors? Is it SPL, sound stage reproduction, reproduction accuracy, visual esthetics? Each of these question needs to be answered and quantified as best as possible before you can start to select the equipment that will ultimately deliver the sound.JinMTVT said:ahha nice comment
But what are the direct requirements and complications when using louspeakers in a big room ?
Once you have answered the questions above (and whatever else you feel is important to your listening pleasure) you can began to prioritize your list.
This will probably not turn out to be a black and white process. There are many odd factors that play into what makes for a good sounding system in a living space and what is acceptable to the spouse/pocket book/schedule.
Enough with this nonsense!!!!!
( sorry i like this line )
Ok i get your point, and you are probably dead on..
But what about accoustical differences between big and small room ..
without considering the requirements
lets say , how will a certain system perform differently in a small and in a big room if listened to from the same distance ..
clients..brb
( sorry i like this line
)Ok i get your point, and you are probably dead on..
But what about accoustical differences between big and small room ..
without considering the requirements
lets say , how will a certain system perform differently in a small and in a big room if listened to from the same distance ..
clients..brb
Big room needs more power. You've figured that out already.
A big room will have its standing waves at lower frequencies than a small room, so bass response is often much better in a big room. Remember tho, that the highs will drop off are become more diffused if the listening position is far from the speakers.
As you get farther from the speakers, the sweet spot gets larger, that's good. But you will start to lose detail as compared to nearfield. Some big rooms can sound just as bad as small ones, even worse. I say this from the experience of running a P.A. in aircraft hangers and hockey rinks. Just depends on the room.
I have a mid size 2 way system at work that fills the room pretty well. The room is huge - 40x50x22 high. My 12"/2" boxes do well. Sensitivity is key. They get about 94dB/watt at 2.83 volts. For reasonable listening levels about 2 watts average is needed in that room.
IMO, to fill a big room you need big drivers and some power. Most polite little Hi-Fi drivers just can't cut it; they can't move enough air unless you push them really hard. They may sound wonderful up close in a small room, but they just can't fill a big space.
If I were building a system for a space as big as yours, I’d look at 12” minimum for the low end, 15” would be better. Depending on what you want - a separate sub could help. Look toward pro drivers. But that’s my prejudice.
A big room will have its standing waves at lower frequencies than a small room, so bass response is often much better in a big room. Remember tho, that the highs will drop off are become more diffused if the listening position is far from the speakers.
As you get farther from the speakers, the sweet spot gets larger, that's good. But you will start to lose detail as compared to nearfield. Some big rooms can sound just as bad as small ones, even worse. I say this from the experience of running a P.A. in aircraft hangers and hockey rinks.
Just depends on the room.I have a mid size 2 way system at work that fills the room pretty well. The room is huge - 40x50x22 high. My 12"/2" boxes do well. Sensitivity is key. They get about 94dB/watt at 2.83 volts. For reasonable listening levels about 2 watts average is needed in that room.
IMO, to fill a big room you need big drivers and some power. Most polite little Hi-Fi drivers just can't cut it; they can't move enough air unless you push them really hard. They may sound wonderful up close in a small room, but they just can't fill a big space.
If I were building a system for a space as big as yours, I’d look at 12” minimum for the low end, 15” would be better. Depending on what you want - a separate sub could help. Look toward pro drivers. But that’s my prejudice.
Basically, a speaker setup in one room, setup in a partiular relationship to the listener will sound very similar in a larger room as it does in a small room assuming that the speakers are not designed specifically to interact with the room boundries.JinMTVT said:Enough with this nonsense!!!!!
( sorry i like this line
Ok i get your point, and you are probably dead on..
But what about accoustical differences between big and small room ..
without considering the requirements
lets say , how will a certain system perform differently in a small and in a big room if listened to from the same distance ..
clients..brb
In general, there are far too many variables to state with any certainty how unknown speakers will sound in different sized rooms. Until specific information is known about the room and specific decisions are made about the listening requiremnets, one guess is as bad as the next.
I can tell you of my experience with my speakers in various sized rooms. My speakers, having relatively controlled dispersion had only subtle affects on the sound moving from a large room with high ceilings and short distance behind the listener to a large room with a low ceiling and a lot of room behind the listener. The sound stage was larger in the first case and seemed to be more open in the second. But again, the change was subtle.
a little lateral thinking here....
run parallel systems?
1 - a system for critical listening focused on a relatively small area
2 - a many speakered system for casual listening
You get your medium-large towers and a groovy amp for when you really wanna listen, and get some 900mhz active speakers sprinkled liberally around for when you want some tunes while you're doing the dishes or whatever. Maybe a good FM broadcaster w/ some boomboxes.
If the challenge of making a single system work well in your environment is what's interesting to you then (while I don't know much about them) I understand that line-arrays are supposed to be cool here. Or maybe bipolars that sit on your living rm / dining rm boundry, firing into both spaces.
A
run parallel systems?
1 - a system for critical listening focused on a relatively small area
2 - a many speakered system for casual listening
You get your medium-large towers and a groovy amp for when you really wanna listen, and get some 900mhz active speakers sprinkled liberally around for when you want some tunes while you're doing the dishes or whatever. Maybe a good FM broadcaster w/ some boomboxes.
If the challenge of making a single system work well in your environment is what's interesting to you then (while I don't know much about them) I understand that line-arrays are supposed to be cool here. Or maybe bipolars that sit on your living rm / dining rm boundry, firing into both spaces.
A
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