Hello!
Finally I decided that the speakers I am going to build will sport an Audax HD-3P tweeter. Bearing im mind the fact that it's only rated at 70W and Xo freq. is 5 KHz and above I have some
questions:
- what midrange driver would suit HD-3P and would play
without any problems up to 5 KHz. I also mean dispersion...
I thought about new Scan Speak midrange driver 12M/4631G00
(data at http://www.d-s-t.com/scs/index.htm), but it's a new
driver and unfortunately there's not much info about it yet
- will HD-3P, crossed at, say 5KHz be able to play loud without
any compression? I was wondering abou the Pmax rating
of this driver, so is there anything to worry about?
Any suggestions, opinions, commest welcome.
Thanks!
Best regards,
Spherion
Finally I decided that the speakers I am going to build will sport an Audax HD-3P tweeter. Bearing im mind the fact that it's only rated at 70W and Xo freq. is 5 KHz and above I have some
questions:
- what midrange driver would suit HD-3P and would play
without any problems up to 5 KHz. I also mean dispersion...
I thought about new Scan Speak midrange driver 12M/4631G00
(data at http://www.d-s-t.com/scs/index.htm), but it's a new
driver and unfortunately there's not much info about it yet
- will HD-3P, crossed at, say 5KHz be able to play loud without
any compression? I was wondering abou the Pmax rating
of this driver, so is there anything to worry about?
Any suggestions, opinions, commest welcome.
Thanks!
Best regards,
Spherion
Hi Spherion
I have used the HD3P lots, and it is a superb driver, much better than anything else in it's price range, and better than a lot more expensive ones as well!
The only driver I use with it these days is the HM100ZO, but that is mainly because no one else does a reasonably priced driver that works so well, so high. The HM100 has a little cone breakup at 5k, but it is bearable, and to be honest, not many mid drivers go that cleanly up to 5k anyway.
The lowest you can get with the HD3P is about 4.8k, as it drops off fairly quickly below that, and you have to rebuild the crossover that comes with the driver to do it. This means, from what I see at the Scan Speak site, that their mid should be ok as long as you can cope with a slightly directional sound.
Bear in mind that Audax rate the power handling of their speakers fairly conservatively, and also when you get to 5k and above, you don't actually need much power for the highs.
I have used the HD3P lots, and it is a superb driver, much better than anything else in it's price range, and better than a lot more expensive ones as well!
The only driver I use with it these days is the HM100ZO, but that is mainly because no one else does a reasonably priced driver that works so well, so high. The HM100 has a little cone breakup at 5k, but it is bearable, and to be honest, not many mid drivers go that cleanly up to 5k anyway.
The lowest you can get with the HD3P is about 4.8k, as it drops off fairly quickly below that, and you have to rebuild the crossover that comes with the driver to do it. This means, from what I see at the Scan Speak site, that their mid should be ok as long as you can cope with a slightly directional sound.
Bear in mind that Audax rate the power handling of their speakers fairly conservatively, and also when you get to 5k and above, you don't actually need much power for the highs.
Hello Pinkmouse,
Thanks for reply...I was looking for a good tweeter for a while.
Ribbons (Raven etc.) are too expensive for me, so I decided to
go for HD-3P.
What would you say about sonic qualities of HD-3P, I simply like
to know second opinion. To my ears it is slightly polite, but
doesn't have that specific 'textile' sound od (even HQ) domes...
Probably I'll stay with 'default' crossover. I can live with that
slight directionality - now I am listening to ESL's, so I got used to it
Considering what U say, I will be able to play really loud with HD-3P? You know, sometimes I have to make a small party
Best regards,
Spherion
Thanks for reply...I was looking for a good tweeter for a while.
Ribbons (Raven etc.) are too expensive for me, so I decided to
go for HD-3P.
What would you say about sonic qualities of HD-3P, I simply like
to know second opinion. To my ears it is slightly polite, but
doesn't have that specific 'textile' sound od (even HQ) domes...
Probably I'll stay with 'default' crossover. I can live with that
slight directionality - now I am listening to ESL's, so I got used to it
Considering what U say, I will be able to play really loud with HD-3P? You know, sometimes I have to make a small party
Best regards,
Spherion
Hi Spherion
I think what you call polite, is merely the lack of distortion from the driver, it doesn't seem to have any of that hard nasty distortion that all dome tweeters seem to exhibit, (especially metal domes... I hate metal domes...)
When your ear gets used to this lack of distortion, all of a sudden things become much more 3d, with a pleasing sweetness, but still very high definition, hi-hats sound like real hi-hats, and violins and such have an accoustic naturalness that is lacking with other drivers. The sound is revealing, yet not tiring, you can listen to them for hours on end, and I do
As for party volumes, they do go pretty loud, but as with all good hi-fi speakers, they are not meant for continual party levels. But then again, I have never had any problems with them not being loud enough at any of my parties
I think what you call polite, is merely the lack of distortion from the driver, it doesn't seem to have any of that hard nasty distortion that all dome tweeters seem to exhibit, (especially metal domes... I hate metal domes...)
When your ear gets used to this lack of distortion, all of a sudden things become much more 3d, with a pleasing sweetness, but still very high definition, hi-hats sound like real hi-hats, and violins and such have an accoustic naturalness that is lacking with other drivers. The sound is revealing, yet not tiring, you can listen to them for hours on end, and I do
As for party volumes, they do go pretty loud, but as with all good hi-fi speakers, they are not meant for continual party levels. But then again, I have never had any problems with them not being loud enough at any of my parties
Hi Al,
Yeay, I think you're right about the lack of distortion.
I listened many times to very good conventional domes,
like Revelator and they simply sounded harsh to me.
Not a case with HD-3P
I think I'll probably go for the combination of that newest
Scan Speak midrange and HD-3P. I feel that it would be
a better soluction than HM100Z0.
This SS mid has a sensitivity about 90.5 dB (on paper, at least),
do u think I will have to attenuate HD-3P? If so, then how much?
And will I have to make any mods to the orginal crossover,
or just leave it as it is?
Oh, one more thing - is HD-3P very dierctional, how does this
matter look like?
Best regards,
Spherion
Yeay, I think you're right about the lack of distortion.
I listened many times to very good conventional domes,
like Revelator and they simply sounded harsh to me.
Not a case with HD-3P
I think I'll probably go for the combination of that newest
Scan Speak midrange and HD-3P. I feel that it would be
a better soluction than HM100Z0.
This SS mid has a sensitivity about 90.5 dB (on paper, at least),
do u think I will have to attenuate HD-3P? If so, then how much?
And will I have to make any mods to the orginal crossover,
or just leave it as it is?
Oh, one more thing - is HD-3P very dierctional, how does this
matter look like?
Best regards,
Spherion
Hi again
I would leave everything as it is for now, until you have built and measured the response of the drivers in the cabinet. You will have to tweak other things then, so you might as well wait 'till that stage before you change anything.
As for directionality, it is pretty good up to about 16K, then has a slow roll off at 30 degrees of about 8db/octave, but flat up to 30k in line.
I would leave everything as it is for now, until you have built and measured the response of the drivers in the cabinet. You will have to tweak other things then, so you might as well wait 'till that stage before you change anything.
As for directionality, it is pretty good up to about 16K, then has a slow roll off at 30 degrees of about 8db/octave, but flat up to 30k in line.
Tkanks again, Al!
So, the first thing is to play with AD-3P as it is form the factory
and work on the crossover for mid and bass first, am I right?
Considering your opinion, the directionality od HD-3P won't
bother me.
Well, finally, some more questions emerged. For example,
I suppose I will need a very fast bass driver, so that It will
keep up with the rest (I assume that this new 12M SS mid
is also a fast and detailed driver). What bass driver would
U suggest? I have a 32 sq meters room and I am thiking
about good 10" or 12" driver.
And, there's also a problem of enclosure. It should make
the best of some qualities of the both of these drivers
(spead, transparency)... I thougt initially of separate bass
and mid/high enclosures, so that I can make the enclosure
for mid and tweeter as narrow as possible. Is this a good idea?
Thanks,
Spherion
So, the first thing is to play with AD-3P as it is form the factory
and work on the crossover for mid and bass first, am I right?
Considering your opinion, the directionality od HD-3P won't
bother me.
Well, finally, some more questions emerged. For example,
I suppose I will need a very fast bass driver, so that It will
keep up with the rest (I assume that this new 12M SS mid
is also a fast and detailed driver). What bass driver would
U suggest? I have a 32 sq meters room and I am thiking
about good 10" or 12" driver.
And, there's also a problem of enclosure. It should make
the best of some qualities of the both of these drivers
(spead, transparency)... I thougt initially of separate bass
and mid/high enclosures, so that I can make the enclosure
for mid and tweeter as narrow as possible. Is this a good idea?
Thanks,
Spherion
Hi Will,
I've been using Audax HM 130C0 for some time. It's a really
good midrange for the money, nevertheless it has some inherent flaws, so I wouldn't see it as a midrange in my next speakers.
I don't know what can I say about HM170C0, but to me it's simply
too big driver to use it up to 5 KHz (req. for HD-3P).
Maybe there is a possible combination for HM170C0 and HD-3P,
although I am not sure about the final quality of the 3-5KHz
band.
Personally, I want a _small midrange, which could really cope
with frequencies up to 5 KHz. I simply don't believe that HM170C0
can do that.
Greetz,
Sphetion
I've been using Audax HM 130C0 for some time. It's a really
good midrange for the money, nevertheless it has some inherent flaws, so I wouldn't see it as a midrange in my next speakers.
I don't know what can I say about HM170C0, but to me it's simply
too big driver to use it up to 5 KHz (req. for HD-3P).
Maybe there is a possible combination for HM170C0 and HD-3P,
although I am not sure about the final quality of the 3-5KHz
band.
Personally, I want a _small midrange, which could really cope
with frequencies up to 5 KHz. I simply don't believe that HM170C0
can do that.
Greetz,
Sphetion
Spherion
Ok, I use a separate mid /hi enclosure and it works brilliantly, ( see photo below, only a back shot, but I left my camera at work!)
For Bass drivers, If you can afford them I would reccomend the Volt range, especially the B2500.1, or the RV3134, which not only sounds good, it looks really cool as well
Ok, I use a separate mid /hi enclosure and it works brilliantly, ( see photo below, only a back shot, but I left my camera at work!)
For Bass drivers, If you can afford them I would reccomend the Volt range, especially the B2500.1, or the RV3134, which not only sounds good, it looks really cool as well
Attachments
Thanks Al for the photo, it really looks amazing.
How did U made these slanted(sorry if I used wrong word) walls?
My idea was very similar to your but with more ordinary shape
of the speaker cabinet.
I still think abou bass driver - yeah, Volt B2500.1 would cut the mustard. I sent an e-mail to Wilmslow Audio and asked how
much would it cost incl. shipping etc.
I have exactly 1K pounds for all drivers, so if I think reasonably
and don't make unnecesarry expenses I'll be able to afford it.
btw. Isn' it the driver used in REL subs?
Greetz,
Spherion
How did U made these slanted(sorry if I used wrong word) walls?
My idea was very similar to your but with more ordinary shape
of the speaker cabinet.
I still think abou bass driver - yeah, Volt B2500.1 would cut the mustard. I sent an e-mail to Wilmslow Audio and asked how
much would it cost incl. shipping etc.
I have exactly 1K pounds for all drivers, so if I think reasonably
and don't make unnecesarry expenses I'll be able to afford it.
btw. Isn' it the driver used in REL subs?
Greetz,
Spherion
Just noted you started another thread without me
The sloped walls on the mid/hi enclosure are done with a table saw, and much thinking about compound mitres
The eliptical rear on the bass box was made of a lamination of thin mdf, concrete, and finished with a layer of vinyl flooring to give the checker plate metal look. It is very rigid, and with the different materials used, very damped.
I think a tweeked Volt is used in the REL drivers.
Found a front photo buried on my HD
(edit) I think Volt have both Swedish and Russian dealers, could one of them be cheaper?
The sloped walls on the mid/hi enclosure are done with a table saw, and much thinking about compound mitres
The eliptical rear on the bass box was made of a lamination of thin mdf, concrete, and finished with a layer of vinyl flooring to give the checker plate metal look. It is very rigid, and with the different materials used, very damped.
I think a tweeked Volt is used in the REL drivers.
Found a front photo buried on my HD
(edit) I think Volt have both Swedish and Russian dealers, could one of them be cheaper?
Attachments
Hi Pan,
Yeah, the mids are open back, but heavily stuffed to give an aperiodic line, the tweets are just faked for asthetics.
I subconciously want one of the HD3Ps to blow, so I can take it apart and see if it could be modified to work in a line as well, but it's just too expensive to do on a working £120 driver, when I'm not sure if I could put it back together...
Yeah, the mids are open back, but heavily stuffed to give an aperiodic line, the tweets are just faked for asthetics.
I subconciously want one of the HD3Ps to blow, so I can take it apart and see if it could be modified to work in a line as well, but it's just too expensive to do on a working £120 driver, when I'm not sure if I could put it back together...
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