'LGT' Construction Diary

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diyAudio Member
Joined 2004
diyAudio Member
Joined 2004
richie00boy said:
I did have a quick look on ebay, that was where I saw the Sealey one. Those units you found are out of my price range though. I don't need anything fancy, as long as it sprays car paint I'm happy. I've no need to spray glue or house paint.

Rich, I just bought one of those ICI 4 stage jobs - impulse buy ;) I'm not sure its any use but I'll be shifting my existing gun/air line and compressor cheaply if your interested.
 
One's dirty and one's clean!

Seriously tho, the spec's look more than good enough for any diy builder. Probably good enough for a shop too.

I know DeVilbiss and they make some of the finest guns I've ever touched but they don't seem to sell any turbine stuff over here.

Wasn't aware that ICI made tools. Over here they sell paint under the Glidden name.

Neither comes with the gun so.. just in case, it might be worth mentioning that turbine units need a turbine specific gun. Compressed air guns won't work at all with a turbine.



ShinOBIWAN said:
Bob, what do yo think of this unit on ebay:

...
 
diyAudio Member
Joined 2004
Thanks Bob.

I went with the 4 stage ICI unit simply because I use a lot of high build primer and liked the idea of headroom. I've been meaning to upgrade from the starter kit I have now for some time.

The market seems to be flooded with HVLP, LVLP, RP guns. What are the differences between these?

Ideally I'd like to go with a two gun setup this time. One for clearcoat, metallics and base and another for primer. I guess that means a ~1.2mm tip and ~1.6mm setup?

The only thing I really know is avoid the cheap guns. Other than that I don't have much idea.

I was thinking about the Sharpe T1 Titanium as the clear/finishing gun:

http://www.sharpe1.com/sharpe/sharpe.nsf/Files/RMC2RMC3/$File/310585E.pdf?OpenElement

And this Sealey for the primer and thicker paint materials:

http://www.pvrdirect.co.uk/productInfo.aspx?source=froogle&mode=testing&catref=HVLP-751
 
They're all terms for the way the cap atomizes in order to increase transfer efficiency and meet air quality standards. There are some other considerations like ability to be washed in a gun cleaning station, but that's usually only a concern for commercial use. Some localities may have regulations for personal use so be aware.

HVLP - High Volume Low Pressure, can be either a compressor driven or turbine driven gun. Air pressure at the tip ~10psi or less and transfer efficiency ~65% or greater. Compressor driven guns of this type usually need a serious compressor, lots of cfm's. There are a few exceptions however.

LVLP - Low Volume Low Pressure. Compressor driven guns. Use less air (cfm) than other guns while still being low pressure and high transfer efficiency. They don't atomize as well as others but can be ok, but slow, if your compressor is limited. Mostly used as detail or close quarter guns as overspray and bounce back are reduced.

RP - Reduced Pressure, another compressor driven gun type. Falls somewhere between HVLP and conventional. The tip pressure is limited to help meet standards while still maintaining the feel and operating character of a conventional compressed air gun. Higher transfer efficiency typically, but not always. Usually less overspray than conventional guns. Most consume slightly less air than HVLP.

Compliant Guns - See RP. These guns do meet certain regulations for transfer efficiency, pressure, etc.

Tip setup is tricky. Totally depends on the gun and material. I would strongly recommend checking with the gun and paint manufacturers for their advise.
But generaly, for automotive clears/base coats and maximum efficiency (speed of application) most guns would use a ~1.3 or 1.4 tip.
1.4 or 1.5 might be better for some base paints.
~1.8 for primer.
Metallics can be anyones guess! Particle size plays a big role and this varies widely from brand to brand.
Smaller detail guns would be happy with a 1.0 - 1.2 for most coatings.

Sharpe is very highly regarded. In your hands it would be more than good enough. Don't know the Sealey at all, sorry.




ShinOBIWAN said:
Thanks Bob.

I went with the 4 stage ICI unit simply because I use a lot of high build primer and liked the idea of headroom. I've been meaning to upgrade from the starter kit I have now for some time.

The market seems to be flooded with HVLP, LVLP, RP guns. What are the differences between these?

Ideally I'd like to go with a two gun setup this time. One for clearcoat, metallics and base and another for primer. I guess that means a ~1.2mm tip and ~1.6mm setup?

The only thing I really know is avoid the cheap guns. Other than that I don't have much idea.

I was thinking about the Sharpe T1 Titanium as the clear/finishing gun:

http://www.sharpe1.com/sharpe/sharpe.nsf/Files/RMC2RMC3/$File/310585E.pdf?OpenElement

And this Sealey for the primer and thicker paint materials:

http://www.pvrdirect.co.uk/productInfo.aspx?source=froogle&mode=testing&catref=HVLP-751
 
Hi BOB,

What would be your recommandation for compressor to use a HPLV gun. I was thinking to by a 100Liter(22Guk-26,42Gus)/3HP compressor. It's rate to 10bars (145psi)max pressure, 240L/mn (8,5CFM) at 7bars (101psi) and 270L/mn (9,54CFM)at 3bars(43,5psi).

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.


Thanks for advise.

Marc
 
richie00boy said:
If you note Bob's post above, you should see that compressors are not recommended for HVLP guns. This is because they have trouble getting the volume of air out. They are geared more towards higher pressure at lower volume flow.

Although the compressor you show there is fairly big, I'm not sure it would be ideal for HVLP.

I also play with HPLV turbine for house and wood painting job, there's great differences between those dedicated gun spray and ohter HPLV ones we can see who are seems to be dedicated to compressor : Exemple. If Bob could fixe that, it would be nice.

Marc
 
Don't have time to address all the points right now but I'll try to clear up some apparent confusion.

There are two basic types of spray guns being talked about:

1) Turbine driven - these are almost always going to be HVLP because of the turbine being a high volume, low pressure source of air.

2) Compressed air driven. These can be any of the technologies discussed so far.

You can not drive a compressed air gun with a turbine. Won't work. Not enough air pressure, ever. Turbines are for turbine specific guns only.

You can adapt a turbine gun to be driven by a compressor. Requires a huge amount of air tho.
 
I'd need a little more info.
Assuming for speaker enclosures..which gun and what type of finish?
Makes all the difference...

Idefixes said:
Hi BOB,

What would be your recommandation for compressor to use a HPLV gun. I was thinking to by a 100Liter(22Guk-26,42Gus)/3HP compressor. It's rate to 10bars (145psi)max pressure, 240L/mn (8,5CFM) at 7bars (101psi) and 270L/mn (9,54CFM)at 3bars(43,5psi).

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.


Thanks for advise.

Marc
 
That is a nice gun for the price. Inexpensive but not cheap or low quality.
Most auto finishers would consider it a primer gun. But it can produce very good color and good clear coats.

Like most compressed air hvlp guns it uses a bit of air. If I remember around 13 cfm?

Think I'll do a separate post on compressor/gun matchups.



Idefixes said:


I also play with HPLV turbine for house and wood painting job, there's great differences between those dedicated gun spray and ohter HPLV ones we can see who are seems to be dedicated to compressor : Exemple. If Bob could fixe that, it would be nice.

Marc
 
Bob,
I feel a little guilty about asking fot HVLP info and being absent for the reply. Thanks for the details. I thought all HVLP units were low-end, unsophisticated and strictly for craft types of applications. What a colossal blunder!
Accuspray looks quite good but a little expensive. I will need to find it used if I acquire it. Is there another brand in the $300 to $500 range that will work for speaker finishing?

Ant,
I am anxious to hear your experience with the new HVLP. My spray experience has been strickly Binks and DeVillbix pot guns hooked to large compressors. Your transition will be as mine.

Ray

Bob,
Just saw your post on the new thread you are considering pertaining to guns and compressors. Please DO IT!
 
Ray Collins said:

Bob,
Just saw your post on the new thread you are considering pertaining to guns and compressors. Please DO IT!

As me too. I want yet to go for a better finish quality for speaker box and other working as pieces of furnitures, internal house doors......Assumatingthe devilbiss FL3 needs 13CFM the compresor I shown above is too week so he FL3 need a compressor up grade.
Rob can you advise me un sray gun suited to the compressor above? I want to have a good glossy finish, without (or minimum) orange peal in works i mentioned above this post. What type of paint (polyurethane, water base....) wil be suited with those work?

Marc
 
Ah, yeah. Forgot about that thread. No problem.

Turbine HVLP is odd. There's very little at that in between price/capability place. But there are a few glimmers of hope.

I'm trying to write up a little more but keep getting distracted with household duties. Probably be tomorrow evening. Hopefully I can offer something useful to you then.



Ray Collins said:
Bob,
I feel a little guilty about asking fot HVLP info and being absent for the reply. Thanks for the details. I thought all HVLP units were low-end, unsophisticated and strictly for craft types of applications. What a colossal blunder!
Accuspray looks quite good but a little expensive. I will need to find it used if I acquire it. Is there another brand in the $300 to $500 range that will work for speaker finishing?


Bob,
Just saw your post on the new thread you are considering pertaining to guns and compressors. Please DO IT!
 
I'm currently using one of these HVLP turbine systems: http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?id=36283&ts=22916#

My lack of spraying experience is probably the limiting factor, but it's not too bad. It comes with a 2mm needle/tip, which is just about OK for primer (can't completely get rid of the splattering).

I've just bought a 1.5mm tip for it in the hope it'll be better for cellulose paints (I can't get good atomisation with the 2mm tip).
 
ShinOBIWAN said:
Rich, I just bought one of those ICI 4 stage jobs - impulse buy ;) I'm not sure its any use but I'll be shifting my existing gun/air line and compressor cheaply if your interested.

Thanks, but due to lack of space I need to look at turbine systems. Also I think for me HVLP is the way to go.

sploo said:
I'm currently using one of these HVLP turbine systems: http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?id=36283&ts=22916#

That's the sort of thing I'm after sploo. I saw a 1000W one on ebay for a bit cheaper than that, but maybe motor wattage is not really a great spec to look at?

I'm also keen to spray mainly water based finishes. So would obviously need equipment to cope with this.
 
I fully understand; each time I use my shop I must set it up outside of my golf cart garage where everything is stored. I must roll out the folding Bosch Table Saw, drag out the cutting table and DeWalt sliding chop saw that sits on top of it, and the drill, sander etc. from their cases. A friend watched me go through this and remarked "whew...that is Really Wanting It!" He is right but it beats Not Having a Shop?!
My wife said if I try and get one more item stored in the cart garage "something is going to pop out of the back!" I think I can fit an HVLP unit in though....

Ray
 
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