I dunno, I was bored, and keep reading about building some new speakers. The problem I have is that for some strange reason, I still like the sound and imaging of my old bose 10.2 speakers. They are now 20 years old, and still on their origonal foam. I never liked bose products personally, except for this one set of speakers they have, 10.2, orginal series. They weigh 62 lbs a pop, (Does bose make anything that weighs half as much these days?) and have a unique arrangement. Two 8" woofers in a sort of TL alignment where they vent out the side, and two tweeters that point left and right from the front. One of the tweeters shuts off over 5K hz.
But in order to tip me into the building mode, just for giggles, I popped off one of the woofers to take a look at what they might have used for a network. I am no crossover engineer, but I have to think, they did not spend a hella lot of time on these. Iwould have thought $1200 speakers would at least have some sort of network for the woofers. Nope. Full tilt on those, wired directly to the terminal cup with no network,. The tweeters have a car dome lamp in series as a current limiter, and the inductors are wound with (I am guessing here) maybe 28 or 30 gauge wire. It made me laugh slightly as I just finished building the crossovers for these:
http://users.d-web.com/dbrown/db616tl2/db616tl2.htm
for my brother in law.
Anyway, here is a pic of the bose with its dress up.
This is not btw, a major bash on bose, (that happens enough else where) even though it might appear that way. I am just trying to sort out something, namely if I want to build a new set of speakers.
I really have the hots for the raw acoustics HT8's. My neighbor says: "How much of an improvement will I have over these?"
That is the question, because I still like the way these sound, yet I know there must be better out there. These have an imaging that I have not heard in other speakers. Will the HT8's blow the doors off these?
Feeding them with my adcom 555 mkII has helped the sound also.
Anyway, I hope there was a point to this post!
But in order to tip me into the building mode, just for giggles, I popped off one of the woofers to take a look at what they might have used for a network. I am no crossover engineer, but I have to think, they did not spend a hella lot of time on these. Iwould have thought $1200 speakers would at least have some sort of network for the woofers. Nope. Full tilt on those, wired directly to the terminal cup with no network,. The tweeters have a car dome lamp in series as a current limiter, and the inductors are wound with (I am guessing here) maybe 28 or 30 gauge wire. It made me laugh slightly as I just finished building the crossovers for these:
http://users.d-web.com/dbrown/db616tl2/db616tl2.htm
for my brother in law.
Anyway, here is a pic of the bose with its dress up.
This is not btw, a major bash on bose, (that happens enough else where) even though it might appear that way. I am just trying to sort out something, namely if I want to build a new set of speakers.
I really have the hots for the raw acoustics HT8's. My neighbor says: "How much of an improvement will I have over these?"
That is the question, because I still like the way these sound, yet I know there must be better out there. These have an imaging that I have not heard in other speakers. Will the HT8's blow the doors off these?
Feeding them with my adcom 555 mkII has helped the sound also.
Anyway, I hope there was a point to this post!
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There are many manufacturers that use electrolytics (even so-called "high end" brands) so that's not surprising. The inductors are interesting. They look like they're definitely geared for assembly line production.
When you built the MTMs did you notice a difference in the soundstaging and imaging compared to the Bose?
Do you like the way the DIY speakers sound?
If you enjoy the diffuse soundstage of the direct-reflecting design then maybe a standard monopole design is not for you. One option may be a bipole design.
Personally, if I were choosing between the Bose and the HT8, I'd take the HT8.
When you built the MTMs did you notice a difference in the soundstaging and imaging compared to the Bose?
Do you like the way the DIY speakers sound?
If you enjoy the diffuse soundstage of the direct-reflecting design then maybe a standard monopole design is not for you. One option may be a bipole design.
Personally, if I were choosing between the Bose and the HT8, I'd take the HT8.
The speakers my brother in law built (he does wood, I do solder) are the older 2 way design.
They have a more laid back sound to them, and the imaging did not strike me, but the do sound pretty good. They do not seem to have as much output as my speakers. (May be his decidedly low end reciever from best buy also). I am not able to do an A/B comparo, they are not in the same house.
Raw also has an apex kit for a few hundred more. It features a driver out the back to open up staging, and I am also considering that. I just missed a bomber one day sale. The apex (apex II actually) would make for quite a bit more work as a machined baffle board is not included in that one. That is a serious amount of holes to get perfect!
http://www.rawacoustics.com/CMS__Apex_II_Technical_Information.html
Thanks. I just need convincing, thats all!
One very real problem is not being able to hear before I build. I don't have a patient enough wife to do it multiple times.
I have a 12" tcsounds 2000 on the way to go into a 3ft cabinet powered by a buttkicker. That should probably influence my decision also.
They have a more laid back sound to them, and the imaging did not strike me, but the do sound pretty good. They do not seem to have as much output as my speakers. (May be his decidedly low end reciever from best buy also). I am not able to do an A/B comparo, they are not in the same house.
Raw also has an apex kit for a few hundred more. It features a driver out the back to open up staging, and I am also considering that. I just missed a bomber one day sale. The apex (apex II actually) would make for quite a bit more work as a machined baffle board is not included in that one. That is a serious amount of holes to get perfect!
http://www.rawacoustics.com/CMS__Apex_II_Technical_Information.html
Thanks. I just need convincing, thats all!
One very real problem is not being able to hear before I build. I don't have a patient enough wife to do it multiple times.
I have a 12" tcsounds 2000 on the way to go into a 3ft cabinet powered by a buttkicker. That should probably influence my decision also.
Nor can I comment on your brother's speakers. In general, if you're looking to build something with the Adire drivers you'll get the best results with a stout amp. Many of the older 2 channel amps had nice hefty power supplies that can do a nice job. Driving them with the $200 A/V receiver from the big box store would be a waste.
The Apex is a mammoth speaker. I know Dan and Al put a lot of effort into it and the results are impressive.
The WR125S and Extremis are not drivers I would call forward compared to some that have mid-range peaks. They tend to be very flat through the upper bass and mid range giving some the impression they are "warm" or "laid back". Putting them in an MTM arrangement can bring the soundstage forward a bit more however IMHO.
The Apex is a mammoth speaker. I know Dan and Al put a lot of effort into it and the results are impressive.
The WR125S and Extremis are not drivers I would call forward compared to some that have mid-range peaks. They tend to be very flat through the upper bass and mid range giving some the impression they are "warm" or "laid back". Putting them in an MTM arrangement can bring the soundstage forward a bit more however IMHO.
Timn8ter- why do you say this? I know the Adire drivers have a tendency to have low efficiencies, is that why?
digital desire- I am glad you liked your Bose. The crossover is designed for a manufacturing line, you can tell. I think you would be surprised by the crossovers in a lot of mass-produced speakers (not just Bose).
I am surprised by the full-ranged woofer, interesting. I wonder if the enclsoure it is it limits the higher-end naturally. I thought those woofers were in a 6th order bandpass type of enclsoure. Time to Google....
EDIT: Lower woofer is in a Bandpass type of enclsoure. Is the upper woofer full-range also??
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Funny you say voice coil, I think that is *exactly* what they are, they look identical. Very thin gauge wire!
I think they are fairly rare (as bose goes) speakers. They made them only for a couple years and then went to lower mass products. The 10.2 series II that came out after these weigh 1/2 as much.
Here is a pic, not sure what the above pic in the band pass is, maybe the series II?
These appear to be transmision line towers. There is a baffle that runs the length of the cabinet and then vents through (maybe it is a band pass?) to a second chamber that vents out the slot that runs the length of the cabinet.
I think they are fairly rare (as bose goes) speakers. They made them only for a couple years and then went to lower mass products. The 10.2 series II that came out after these weigh 1/2 as much.
Here is a pic, not sure what the above pic in the band pass is, maybe the series II?
These appear to be transmision line towers. There is a baffle that runs the length of the cabinet and then vents through (maybe it is a band pass?) to a second chamber that vents out the slot that runs the length of the cabinet.
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I have to agree. These speakers have kept me happy for some time. But come foam time, I think I may want to build something else. And that foam is approaching TBO.
Maybe I should title the thread diferently to "What would you build for this room?" :^)
You can see the sub cabinet against the right wall, mains get powered through a 325/per channel (4 ohm) adcom 555 mkII.
The sub is a tc sounds 12" 2000 with butt kicker and bassis.
Older sony es30 reciever. Room is about 14X22 X 8.
The Apex is probably over kill. but my budget would allow for it.
I like to turn it up once in a while...
Maybe I should title the thread diferently to "What would you build for this room?" :^)
You can see the sub cabinet against the right wall, mains get powered through a 325/per channel (4 ohm) adcom 555 mkII.
The sub is a tc sounds 12" 2000 with butt kicker and bassis.
Older sony es30 reciever. Room is about 14X22 X 8.
The Apex is probably over kill. but my budget would allow for it.
I like to turn it up once in a while...
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Depends on what you're comparing it to.
Scan Speak 18S/8538-00 -- 86.5 db
SEAS W18E001 -- 86 db
Morel HU 531 -- 86 db
Adire Extremis 6.8 -- 86 db
Would you build something with the above listed drivers then use a low end amplifier? I wouldn't if I had a choice. It's not a wattage issue, it's a quality issue. The Extremis is capable of quality audio reproduction. Why cheat yourself?
That is not my quote!
As far as building, anyting is up for grabs, but I do want an established design, the Nat p's, Modulas, ht8's (apex still? too much?). No biamping, just good solid speakers. Bass is important, and the bose seemed to have plenty of that, so that makes me wonder about smaller mtm's that are so popular.
Maybe the wmtm on htguide.
The adire 6.8 intrigues me, seems like nice newer technology...
As far as building, anyting is up for grabs, but I do want an established design, the Nat p's, Modulas, ht8's (apex still? too much?). No biamping, just good solid speakers. Bass is important, and the bose seemed to have plenty of that, so that makes me wonder about smaller mtm's that are so popular.
Maybe the wmtm on htguide.
The adire 6.8 intrigues me, seems like nice newer technology...
Based on the picture I can see why the direct-reflecting design would have it's appeal. The room doesn't seem very "audiophile" friendly.
If it were me personally, I'd build something highly directional and tall enough to project over the couch.
Adire DDR
Keep in mind that I'm the kind of listener that can sit down in one spot for an hour or two and listen to music only getting up to grab a drink.
If it were me personally, I'd build something highly directional and tall enough to project over the couch.
Adire DDR
Keep in mind that I'm the kind of listener that can sit down in one spot for an hour or two and listen to music only getting up to grab a drink.
Copied and saved, thanks!
Are these capable (Never having heard an open baffle set up) of a decent output, i.e., listening to Roger Waters at reference level?
Talk about an easy cabinet to build! I have looked over the Orion site extensively. Those seem way to complicated, I do not have space for crossovers and six amplifiers. It just seems odd to me that they can output a reference level without the rest of the cabinet.
PS: Reference level to me is at or near concert level audio. Is that what is meant by that term?
EDIT: Just found this - http://www.adireaudio.com/Home/KITDDR.htm
Looks promising...!
Are these capable (Never having heard an open baffle set up) of a decent output, i.e., listening to Roger Waters at reference level?
Talk about an easy cabinet to build! I have looked over the Orion site extensively. Those seem way to complicated, I do not have space for crossovers and six amplifiers. It just seems odd to me that they can output a reference level without the rest of the cabinet.
PS: Reference level to me is at or near concert level audio. Is that what is meant by that term?
EDIT: Just found this - http://www.adireaudio.com/Home/KITDDR.htm
Looks promising...!
Discontinued. Bummer.
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=264-714
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=264-714
digital desire said:
Ever hear of the term 'Strong Bass' - these DA175 7" aluminums can surely deliver. Don't let the T/S parameters fool you. Just four of these per side will try an lift the roof off.
On sale!
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=295-335
Also, if I may, ask a stupid question that I already know the answer for: If for some reason I do not like the dipoles, can all the drivers and crossovers be moved to an appropriate conventional cabinet in mtm configuration?
The adcom 555 would be enough in my situation? I heard 1100 watts being swished around in the other thread?
The adcom 555 would be enough in my situation? I heard 1100 watts being swished around in the other thread?
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