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Old 9th May 2010, 03:03 PM   #431
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Hi Alan...

Thank you for your advise, yours and others expertise has been invaluable in my quest to revitalize my Celestions.
After my initial post, I did go back and re-read this post again and some sections again and again. I did read the "Crossover Nightmare post also and a number of other posts that I felt would have some pertinent information. After countless headaches, I began to grasp and understand the knowledge that was being provided and decided to proceed with this upgrade.
I used Solen caps and Mills resistors, as these are easily obtainable in Canada. I made the switch yesterday and finished up kinda late, so I didn't get a chance to give a good listen, but my first impression favorable. The sound is definitely clearer and more detailed than before, especially the bass and midrange. I plan on spending a relaxing day today, listening to my new again and modern Celestion Ditton 66s.
I still think I'd like to give the Seas tweeters a try, either the "H0737 19TFF1" or the "H0586 19TDF", both appear to have the same specs and I can get the H0586 19TDF locally at a fairly reasonable price. Not that anything are wrong with my HF2000s (although before reading this post, I thought so), but I'd just like to hear these speakers with a modern, possibly better tweeter. If you happen back to this post, I'd appreciate your recommendation on resisters to use.
Thanks again for everything
Dave

=======================

Moermusic...

Thanks for posting those pictures of your crossovers, man are those caps ever HUGE. I was considering doing an extension to my PCB, to hold the caps I got to replace the 72uF or really take the plunge and build a new board to house everything. After seeing your pics, it made my Solen caps look tiny, so I went ahead and just used the PCB as is. It all turned out better than I thought it would, all the caps fit nicely on the board, with a few new pinholes drilled and I piggybacked the 2 36uF (for the 72uF), similar to how you have yours, over the inductors.
Thanks again for the pics... gonna go listen to some music =)
Dave
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Old 9th May 2010, 04:42 PM   #432
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Location: Alberta
Default 66 Caps

Those are a Solen 68 & 75 cap. vs using 2 36's in parallel. found all that I used on page 39, post 384. Now to find Alans stuff re SEAS tweeters. Till next we talk. Doug
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Old 9th May 2010, 11:07 PM   #433
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Location: Alberta
Default 66 Seas

Quote:
Originally Posted by damaltor View Post
Alan, don't know if you're still watching this thread, it's been awhile since any activity, but I'll ask anyhow.

I'm considering replacing my HF2000 tweeters with the Seas H0737 19TFF1 tweeters, could you explain the reason for the cap change?
Also, what resistors would you recommend?

My 66s are the PCB versions.

Thanks Dave
I too am toying with this idea. If I use the 8.2uf output cap, I guess the present in series 0.5 resistor would need to change, in value or disappear alltogether? Then add the parallel resistor, of at this time of unknown value. Your advice keenly sought once again Alan.
Doug
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Old 11th May 2010, 06:39 PM   #434
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Location: Midlands
Default the SEAS tweeters, and an Experiment to try first

Quote:
Originally Posted by damaltor View Post

I still think I'd like to give the Seas tweeters a try, either the "H0737 19TFF1" or the "H0586 19TDF", both appear to have the same specs and I can get the H0586 19TDF locally at a fairly reasonable price. Not that anything are wrong with my HF2000s (although before reading this post, I thought so), but I'd just like to hear these speakers with a modern, possibly better tweeter. If you happen back to this post, I'd appreciate your recommendation on resisters to use.
Thanks again for everything
Dave
Hi Dave and Doug,

SEAS H 586 as 19TDF I see listed on SEAS Vintage list,
but the actual Data Sheet that comes on screen is for 19TFF.
I am not sure what difference SEAS apply to *D* versus *F* versions.

There is small difference between H 586 and HO737 which can be seen on the Plots, as distinct from what is stated in the numerical data.
Relevant to your application will be the uF for the output capacitor which I think will need to be larger for 586 than for 737
because the lower treble roll-off within the crossover octave is different for each version of the tweeter,
{and both are different to HF2000 there, thus why the cap needs to be changed}.

I see listed on solen.ca HO586 19TDF at $34.97,
but when the PDF Technical documentation is opened there it is for HO737 19TFF1, thus what you may receive I do not know ...
better would be to ask Solen before buying.

BUT, before changing tweeters I strongly recommend you both refer to my Post #349 on Page 35
and lower down in there to the
EXPERIMENT:-
paragraph.

Try this first so as to ascertain the type of treble versus midrange presentation you prefer to hear - you might be surprised.

Each of you Post here what you can hear - after several sessions, including relaxed listening, not only for dedicated analytical listening
- that is, forget the analysis for the later listening sessions and simply play recordings you like.

Listen for several days, or even a week, to the changed version, then change back to the original and play the same recordings,
then decide what you want to do next.
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Alan
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Old 11th May 2010, 08:08 PM   #435
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Alan...

I did contact Solen regarding the HO586 19TDF listed and the link to the HO737 19TFF1 data sheet. It is the HO586 19TDF tweeters they have for sale.

Madisound has the HO737 19TFF1 for sale and that is the one I'm going to go with, should I choose to replace the HF2000.

Going to try your experiment and give a good listen. You've got me very curious as to the result.

Dave
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Old 12th May 2010, 03:07 PM   #436
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Default SEAS tweeter, and 66 treble filter's old caps

Hi Dave,

I looked through my older notes about previous SEAS tweeters.

I have no record of there ever being a 19TDF anything model,
thus either the *D* there is a misprint on SEAS page list
-{because there is no D on the actual SEAS data sheet}-
which Solen have copied,
OR, the TDF tweeter perhaps was a custom-order version of the original H 586 19TFF made for a specific customer or for a specific purpose
-{such is common for driver manufacturers to do for their large quantity order customers, who are usually loudspeaker system manufacturers}.

The *D* may simply indicate a different colour finish, or a different material for the mounting plate, or a different shaped mounting plate
- all with the same active driver specifications,
OR, it may be a visually identical tweeter which has one or more slightly different active driver specifications.
I would want to see what label was printed on the driver, and if I bought a pair I would do some measurements on them.

Buying the new HO737 version is safer,
but if you decide to buy a H or HO 586 I recommend you email to SEAS before buying and ask them what is the difference between:-
H_586 19TFF and HO586 19TDF.

**********************************************

Dave and Doug,

keep your old capacitors from the treble filter section of the 66 crossover.
These are plastic with metal film and usually such do not deteriorate with age -{unless over driven}-.
They can be used in electrical Parallel connection to try as 8uF and 9.5uF as output cap to a new tweeter
to hear which sounds better before you spend on a new polypropylene cap.
__________________
Alan
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Old 12th May 2010, 04:15 PM   #437
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alan-1-b View Post
Hi Dave,

Buying the new HO737 version is safer,
but if you decide to buy a H or HO 586 I recommend you email to SEAS before buying and ask them what is the difference between:-
H_586 19TFF and HO586 19TDF.

**********************************************

Dave and Doug,

keep your old capacitors from the treble filter section of the 66 crossover.
These are plastic with metal film and usually such do not deteriorate with age -{unless over driven}-.
They can be used in electrical Parallel connection to try as 8uF and 9.5uF as output cap to a new tweeter
to hear which sounds better before you spend on a new polypropylene cap.
Alan...

I would be purchasing the HO737. Madisound has a pretty good price on those and the shipping is pretty reasonable too.

Thanks for the heads up on using the old caps, that will for sure save some time and money ordering new ones. Any thoughts on resistors to use?

I switched the polarity on my tweeters last night and listened for a few hours. I don't have any thoughts or opinions on the effect, as yet, needs more time.
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Old 13th May 2010, 01:16 AM   #438
dloper is offline dloper  Scotland
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Hi damaltor - I'd be interested to read what you think about your tweeter polarity switch, once you've had time to consider your opinion.
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Old 13th May 2010, 11:21 PM   #439
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Location: Alberta
I swithced polarity this am. Frankly, dont notice any difference. My mids are so overbearing, that can hardly tell if hf2000's are working, even using a *paper funnel* from tweet to ear. been listening to some blues from a sattelite music station.
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Old 14th May 2010, 02:54 PM   #440
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Default Spectral content of the test music, and other matters ...

Doug,

(1) - the mids are often overbearing from radio stations,
because a lot of listeners do not have full frequency range listening systems.
Radio stations boost the upper midrange to compensate for listener-systems which have little true treble extension,
AND, they boost the upper bass, just below the low-mids area, to compensate for listener-systems which don't have true bass extension
-{and that is the case with most of the general publics' home radios}.
The Radio engineers then filter off the highest treble frequencies, and often the lowest bass frequencies, so that their broadcast amplifiers power can be fully utilised to transmit the middle portion of the frequency spectrum as loudly as possibe to compete with other radio stations for the attention of the general public.
This is done mostly with Pop music and anything related to Pop music which radio station programmers think a lot of the general public will listen to.
Blues and some jazz and some folk music/world music types are included in this, and even popular "crossover" type Classical performers recordings.

(2) - to hear the effect of the tweeters in balance to the mids, choose recordings that are NOT modern Pop-oriented,
and similarly if Live broadcast of concerts, etc ...
Choose Classical recordings which have Violins - true orchestral classical,
not Andre Rieu -{spelling of his name ?}- or other pop-classical soloists,
OR, choose Folk or similar musics that feature steel-string acoustic guitars -
and again, non-popstar type folk or world music artists.

(3) - if you cannot hear the tweeters with any of your recordings,
post and state that here, and I'll advise what to do.

(4)- if the upper-midrange is dominating the tweeters you may have to change the resistor that is in Series with the 3.9uF cap in parallel with the MD500,
and/or, increase the resistor that is in series with the 25uF cap in the MD500 circuit.
What value resistors are currently in those two positions ?
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Alan
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