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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

celestion 66 needs Mid-range
celestion 66 needs Mid-range
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Old 4th August 2011, 10:13 PM   #821
SatinMill is offline SatinMill  United Kingdom
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: York
Originally Posted by The G.O.A.T.145 View Post
I have three bad ones and I would be more than willing to send them to you if you could promise to fix one for me!

If you are interested please email me @ rock106_5@hotmail.com

Thanks Nick
Just have done, sorry it's taken me this long, I just moved house, and got a pair of mint Acoustic AR-2ax to distract me

Originally Posted by goalhanger View Post
Hello SatinMill , I also have 2 HF2001s that are down and out and would love to get them repaired or indeed do it myself . The SEAS 0737s which have replaced them in my 332s are OK but I feel they are missing something .
If you have a thread on this repair or could let us know your sequence and any issues I'm sure there's a few here would appreciate it .

Thank you.
Just replied in PM too with what I did and a pic.
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Old 22nd August 2011, 04:58 PM   #822
David878 is offline David878
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Default Question about inductors

Hi there,

After growing up listening to my Dad's Ditton 15XR's and running Ditton 33's since the start of my Hi-Fi ownership, I have recently aquired the speakers i've wanted for several years now - a pair of early Celestion 66's. Black baffles, MD500 mids, T1600 woofers and HF2000 tweeters. There is no date stamped inside the cabinets and no serial numbers either (space on the plate by the terminals left blank). The crossovers look totally original, with C4 and C5 being a total of 30uF and banks of ERIE A304 METALISED 2uf caps in the tweeter filters.

A re-cap of the crossovers has been intended from the start, and after studying this excellent thread I have bought Axon 36uf pairs for the bass filter, Sonicap Gen I 24uf (C5) and 4uf (c3) for the mid filter, and Sonicap Gen I 4uf and 6uf for the tweeter filters. ESR compensating resistors are all Mills MRA5 of the relevant values.

I am a little concerned by the current layout of the inductors. L3 and L4 are connected electrically reversed in one of the speakers (see pictures). My electrical knowledge is limited, however i read a post by alan-1-b earlier in the thread that the inductors should not be connected in reverse.. Would this have a significant audible effect?? There is no evidence of these crossovers ever being modified so they must have been wired this way during manufacture.

Also, the woofer on one speaker was wired out of phase, again no obvious evidence of tampering but I find it hard to believe they could have left the factory like this! Other audible traits are a dominant midrange and slightly rolled off treble, which seems to be in keeping with other owners' oberservations prior to a crossover re-cap. No nasty noises from either MD500s or HF2000s so hoping all is good with the drivers!

I would like to reverse L3 and L4 on one of the boards to keep them as electrically identical as possible, can anyone confirm this is the best way forward, or will it make no audible difference?? The woofer connections will be also be corrected.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.
Thanks in advance.

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Old 8th September 2011, 01:02 AM   #823
silversurfer1 is offline silversurfer1  Canada
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Hello al, Ya just wanted to drop in on this great post, you guys hae done some great work here. This thing has been going for a long time. I hope all ditton lovers the best of luck and listening.

I also just got a set of the cool Ditton 66's and they are a 1977 make. Black and red elcap caps and parellel green ones. The circuit bord lay out looks just like David's. I think mine is the same wire conf. as yours Dave.

I got them for a fair price but have found that the tweeters are not working. That sucks, well not the only one. I will switch them with the HO737 19TFF1 tweeter and set up the cross over as follows. Replace caps with Solen 250v PA series as outlined…
C1, C2 = 6.2uF
C3, C4 = 3.9uF
C5 = 3.9uF
C6 = 2*36uF for 72uF
C7 = 24uF
C8 = 2*36uF for 72uF
May consider a 68uF @ C6 and 75uF @ C8 ??
ESR Resistors, Mills MRA-5 as outlined…
C1, C2 – 6.2uF = 0.5R
C5 – 3.9uF = 3.3R
C6 – 72uF = 1.5R
C7 – 24uF = 1.5R
C8 – 72uF = 1.0R

I was wondering if the cap and resister value has been fine tuned for this tweeter set to anyones liking?

For low price, Coles CE 4001 tweeters will work OK, -{with resistors fitted}.
CE 4001 is very similar to HF2000.
I think that Coles may have made HF2000 for Celestion years ago.

Has anyone tried or used this coles tweeter config.?

Again love this thread, took me two days to read through it but you guys really love your speakers!!!


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Old 24th September 2011, 03:38 AM   #824
alan-1-b is offline alan-1-b  United Kingdom
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Location: Midlands
Default read again !

Very briefly today only:-

For the SEAS tweeter do NOT use the 6.2uF capacitor, etc ...

I recommend you read through the thread again from where-ever I first mentioned it,
and continue till you find the recommended capacitor and resistor values for it,
at least for the necessary Parallel connected resistor,
if you do not want any tweeter attenuation with an L-pad of 2 resistors.

Find also where I posted about better sounding options for capacitors for mids and treble than the Solens for little extra money - it is worth it !

I am very busy, and cannot continue here now,
but I hope to be back here in about 2 weeks ...
and will continue about the SEAS tweeter then if you like ...

... and also about David878's inductors' question ...

... and whatever else I have not finished prior in the thread.
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Old 3rd October 2011, 02:20 PM   #825
rwtomkins is offline rwtomkins  United Kingdom
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Hello again everyone,

I haven't posted here for years but I've finally done what I promised to do ages ago and opened up one of my 66s to have a look at the xover. The story so far is that my 66s are from the very last series, with the wooden fronts and the PCB crossovers. After buying them, and before this thread started, I took them to Wilmslow Audio and asked them to recap them and also replace the flimsy internal wiring and the binding posts. I've been using them happily ever since but also following this thread with enormous interest and chipping in once or twice.

On opening up one of the speakers my first discovery was that I made a mistake in post 162 (page 17) when posting links to the circuit diagrams for the different types of crossover. One type of crossover is called the "tagged board" crossover and I thought this was the PCB crossover because the speaker wires are attached to the board with tags or tabs. (Wimslow Audio removed my tags and hard-wired the speaker wires to the PCB to improve signal flow.) But it turns out I had them the wrong way round and in fact the tagged board is the older type and the type I have, the PCB, is the one that's NOT called the tagged board crossover unit.

Anyway here's a picture of mine as refurbished by Wilmslow Audio (you can click on the picture to enlarge it):

Click the image to open in full size.

It seems to me that Wilmslow have done a very good job here. I'm almost sorry in a way because I was hoping I would find I could make the speakers sound even better than they already do! Starting with the blue caps on the left of the board (C8), the values are as follows, going clockwise round the board:

C8: One Alcap 60MFD 100V plus one Alcap 12MFD 100V.
C6: same as C8.
C5 (the black one immediately to the right of C6): Ansar CPA 4u J 450
C4: Ansar CPA 0u68 J 450
C3: Ansar Supersound CPA 3u3 J 400
C2: Ansar CPA 1u5 J 450
C1 (bottom right-hand corner): Ansar CPA 4u7 J 450
C7 (the great big one at the bottom): Wilmslow Supersound MKP 25.00uF +/- 5% 630V DC

If you then compare those values with those on the official Celestion circuit board diagram here:

Click the image to open in full size.

you find that Wilmslow have taken the trouble to substitute caps of identical values with the single exception of the big one at the bottom which is 25uF instead of 24uF - so close it surely makes no difference.

I can see some things that maybe wouldn't meet with Alan's complete approval - notably, caps of different values being mixed in parallel. But it seems to me likely that any improvements I could make would be more notional than audible. Does anyone have any thoughts?

By the way, if you want to compare this PCB with an unmodified one, Grahame posted a picture of the unmodded version in post 47, page 5.
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Old 3rd October 2011, 02:35 PM   #826
goalhanger is offline goalhanger  England
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rwtomkins would you mind taking a pic of the speaker wire connection to the PCB ? I have Ditton 33s which on have just replaced the caps but didn't do the internal wiring as it looked like there wasn't enough room to solder the wires on without wrecking the connections. So i'd be interested to see how Wilmslow did it .
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Old 3rd October 2011, 09:54 PM   #827
rwtomkins is offline rwtomkins  United Kingdom
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Originally Posted by goalhanger View Post
rwtomkins would you mind taking a pic of the speaker wire connection to the PCB ?
I'm very sorry but I can't at present. The speakers are in daily use and I only took a quick peek with the crossover still in situ. If or when I take the crossover right out, I'll be happy to photograph the other side but I'm not planning to just at the moment.
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Old 4th October 2011, 09:03 AM   #828
goalhanger is offline goalhanger  England
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understand - if you can recall did they just drill through the board and solder the wire directly to the tracks ?

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Old 4th October 2011, 09:53 PM   #829
rwtomkins is offline rwtomkins  United Kingdom
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Originally Posted by goalhanger View Post
understand - if you can recall did they just drill through the board and solder the wire directly to the tracks ?
Yes, they suggested a soldered joint would be better than the push-on connectors and you can see from the picture that they've drilled through the board so I think you can be certain that if you saw the other side, you would simply find the bare cable ends soldered direct to the tracks.

Mind you, the other ends of the cables are still attached to the drivers with push-on connectors so you begin to wonder what was the point!

I'm hoping Alan will be back soon to comment. Meanwhile, David878, I think if I were in your place I'd be wary of changing the polarity of anything in the crossovers before hearing from Alan - I think this came up earlier in the thread and if I recall correctly there are reasons why the polarities of the inductors and even the drive units are sometimes reversed, though I don't know what those reasons are.
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Old 5th October 2011, 10:21 AM   #830
goalhanger is offline goalhanger  England
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Location: Essex, England
Thanks rw.
I may get round to replacing the internal wiring and solder the ends on to the tracks as when I replaced the caps I couldn't get the new wires into the board connectors- way too big.
By the way I replaced the blown HF2001s with the SEAS HO737 19TFF1 without changing the crossover atall .They sound OK to me but I didn't have the HFs working so its impossible to compare .
I would like to repair the HFs at some time but too busy at the moment.

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