Hey everyone,
I'm rather new to the world of DIY, but after browsing around a bit I decided to build a pair of Zaph's seas monitors...
I just got the crossovers built, and completed a few hours' of listening. These are a little on the warm side for my taste, and I noted there's a reduced baffle step crossover available, which I'm considering trying. There doesn't look to be much info on his site, though, and searches here failed to turn up any detailed info either. Can anyone provide or point me to a link/thread with more info?
Thanks.
I'm rather new to the world of DIY, but after browsing around a bit I decided to build a pair of Zaph's seas monitors...
I just got the crossovers built, and completed a few hours' of listening. These are a little on the warm side for my taste, and I noted there's a reduced baffle step crossover available, which I'm considering trying. There doesn't look to be much info on his site, though, and searches here failed to turn up any detailed info either. Can anyone provide or point me to a link/thread with more info?
Thanks.
Here you go.
Reduced BSC Crossover
Note that many people also find this speaker on the bright side. You may also want to double check the tweeter polarity, (both negatives to ground) as the null may indirectly contribute to a warm tonality. Another thing you may try is a lower port tuning, which would thin out the midbass a bit.
But, if you're using these in a smallish room or close to walls, this crossover may help.
Reduced BSC Crossover
Note that many people also find this speaker on the bright side. You may also want to double check the tweeter polarity, (both negatives to ground) as the null may indirectly contribute to a warm tonality. Another thing you may try is a lower port tuning, which would thin out the midbass a bit.
But, if you're using these in a smallish room or close to walls, this crossover may help.
Anyoune built sealed alignment version?
I'm considering a sealed alignment build (reduced BSC optional) of Zaph's speaker17 (L18) design.
* Enclosure baffle will be same width and height as the PE .5 cuft enclosure, but enclosure will be less deep (smaller volume).
* Less deep cabinet will help a lot to increase my placement options. That is why sealed vs. tuned port in the PE enclosure.
* L18s will be integrated with a single NHT 1259 sealed and NHT SA-3 sub amplifier. Plan to use the amplifier's active crossover network at best setting for the room (12x16 bedroom), maybe as high as 125hz crossover point.
* Used Zaph's "real T/S parameeters" and a total system Q value of .707 my enclosure result was .23 cuft. My gut tells me to do .3 cuft stuffed (.4 to .5 cuft apparent volume) to best allow integration with active sub crossover.
Looking for confirmation or advice for a better enclosure volume.
Mike
I'm considering a sealed alignment build (reduced BSC optional) of Zaph's speaker17 (L18) design.
* Enclosure baffle will be same width and height as the PE .5 cuft enclosure, but enclosure will be less deep (smaller volume).
* Less deep cabinet will help a lot to increase my placement options. That is why sealed vs. tuned port in the PE enclosure.
* L18s will be integrated with a single NHT 1259 sealed and NHT SA-3 sub amplifier. Plan to use the amplifier's active crossover network at best setting for the room (12x16 bedroom), maybe as high as 125hz crossover point.
* Used Zaph's "real T/S parameeters" and a total system Q value of .707 my enclosure result was .23 cuft. My gut tells me to do .3 cuft stuffed (.4 to .5 cuft apparent volume) to best allow integration with active sub crossover.
Looking for confirmation or advice for a better enclosure volume.
Mike
Could somebody make specification on which point is good to go with smaller BSC? (having room size, cabinet location and wall/furniture absorbtion in mind)
I got 4x4meters (13x13 feet) room (location approximately 2feet from wall and floor, but not exactly same), but I'm going to have 4x8meters (no problem with location), BR wanted in Zaph's cabinet. Both rooms are stood enough. I have only "sub" with f3 about 40hz, so no subwoofer if posible.
I got 4x4meters (13x13 feet) room (location approximately 2feet from wall and floor, but not exactly same), but I'm going to have 4x8meters (no problem with location), BR wanted in Zaph's cabinet. Both rooms are stood enough. I have only "sub" with f3 about 40hz, so no subwoofer if posible.
Re: Off topic... slightly
Hi, (i've not heard them)
Bass extension of the two designs is not that different but the
L18 goes a little lower and can produce higher levels of bass.
the L18 is around 85dB/W, the L15 around 83dB/W, so amplifier
requirements are similar. With no sub and a floorstanding L18
tuned for extended bass they would be very similar.
I think they are both great design, with no sub (or AV amplifier),
I'd go for floorstanding versions of either, with a sub sealed.
Though of course a stand mounted reflex is a still an option.
/sreten.
peter_m said:
Hi, (i've not heard them)
Bass extension of the two designs is not that different but the
L18 goes a little lower and can produce higher levels of bass.
the L18 is around 85dB/W, the L15 around 83dB/W, so amplifier
requirements are similar. With no sub and a floorstanding L18
tuned for extended bass they would be very similar.
I think they are both great design, with no sub (or AV amplifier),
I'd go for floorstanding versions of either, with a sub sealed.
Though of course a stand mounted reflex is a still an option.
/sreten.
Sorry to go slightly more off topic but a few other people may be in a similar position to me; I'm also building Zaph's l18/tbfcg but I'm not having an easy time finding the 2.2mH inductor with ~ 0.3R resistance for a reasonable price. Am I right in thinking that, since I have two amplifiers, I could use an inductor with more resistance, scrap the L-pad and passively bi-amp using the amps' volume controls to level match? More energy would be wasted in the inductor but I would get the advantage of the tweeter's full efficiency. I would ideally like to actively bi-amplify but I don't have to experience to be able to convert Zaph's design into an active one.
Any comments appreciated.
Any comments appreciated.
Re: Re: Off topic... slightly
How can commercial speakers hit speks at 89 and 90db? If I look at Zaph's x-overs, they have less part then many other DiY projects? Do commercial speakers have even less x-over parts in them?
Also, I've read interesting things about base produced by a TL enclosure, is it hype or founded? Would modigying the L18 from ported to TL be worth it? Would the x-over need to be modified as well? Would it be considered difficult for a first timer?
PS: I don't plan for a sub as I don't like them.
sreten said:
...the L18 is around 85dB/W, the L15 around 83dB/W...
How can commercial speakers hit speks at 89 and 90db? If I look at Zaph's x-overs, they have less part then many other DiY projects? Do commercial speakers have even less x-over parts in them?
Also, I've read interesting things about base produced by a TL enclosure, is it hype or founded? Would modigying the L18 from ported to TL be worth it? Would the x-over need to be modified as well? Would it be considered difficult for a first timer?
PS: I don't plan for a sub as I don't like them.
ScottTracy said:
On his webpage about the design Zaph writes, "There's a good amount of flexibility in the DCR for inductors L3 and L7, but try to keep L0 below .4 ohms to avoid affecting the woofer SPL too much."
I've also looked around to find an inductor close to the design specification, but couldn't find anything reasonably priced. So, I plan to use the Madisound Sledgehammer 2.25mH 15 AWG Steel Laminate unwound to 2.2mH. Should be around .16 ohms then and cost about $11 each--a little more $ if Madisound customizes. I'm thinking that it will work OK. Let me know if you find anything better.
Mike
One of three things:
1. Initial listening impressions in a shop is the louder speaker is better (we know that isn't necessarily the case). Hence it is in manufacturers' interests to impress the would be purchaser first up (first impressions count and all that).
2. Manufacturers use high efficiency drivers that will pair easier with low powered amplifiers that most home users have.
3. Manufacturers may not factor in enough or appropriate BSC in their designs / report the system efficiency above the baffle step to make their speakers sound more efficient than they really are.
Zaph's designs are not inefficient. They are just honest and use good price / performance drivers.
Note driver efficiency has nothing to do with the quality of sound it produces.
Cheers,
David.
1. Initial listening impressions in a shop is the louder speaker is better (we know that isn't necessarily the case). Hence it is in manufacturers' interests to impress the would be purchaser first up (first impressions count and all that).
2. Manufacturers use high efficiency drivers that will pair easier with low powered amplifiers that most home users have.
3. Manufacturers may not factor in enough or appropriate BSC in their designs / report the system efficiency above the baffle step to make their speakers sound more efficient than they really are.
Zaph's designs are not inefficient. They are just honest and use good price / performance drivers.
Note driver efficiency has nothing to do with the quality of sound it produces.
Cheers,
David.
Re: Re: Re: Off topic... slightly
Hi,
Commercial speakers that do genuinely hit 89/90dB have no real bass.
I'm not convinced TL's are any better than extended overdamped
vented
tunings, but they are one way of getting low bass from certain drivers.
A simple folded tapered TL should not be too difficult.
e.g. http://seas.no/kit/Thor cab.pdf
The c/o would not need modifying if keep the baffle width the same
and place the drivers at the top like the stand mounting version.
/sreten.
peter_m said:
Hi,
Commercial speakers that do genuinely hit 89/90dB have no real bass.
I'm not convinced TL's are any better than extended overdamped
vented
tunings, but they are one way of getting low bass from certain drivers.
A simple folded tapered TL should not be too difficult.
e.g. http://seas.no/kit/Thor cab.pdf
The c/o would not need modifying if keep the baffle width the same
and place the drivers at the top like the stand mounting version.
/sreten.sreten,
thanks for the reply. The Thor design was for completely different speaker that I cant afford. Also would changing enclosure type affect the x-over design? I don't think I can handle both x-over and enclosure as unresolved variables at the same time for a first project.
Is the original Zaph enclosure to be considered an "extended over dampened vented" enclosure?
peter
thanks for the reply. The Thor design was for completely different speaker that I cant afford. Also would changing enclosure type affect the x-over design? I don't think I can handle both x-over and enclosure as unresolved variables at the same time for a first project.
Is the original Zaph enclosure to be considered an "extended over dampened vented" enclosure?
peter
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.