usa_satriani said:
For a tight punchy sound you should be looking at a more traditional cone-based co-axial. One with a lot of Bl.
Possibly the best of these is from McCauley.
Their 6224cx closed back 10" driver and their 6520 compression driver. Not cheap.. but I don't think you'd get a much more punchy sound from anything else.
usa_satriani said:
Punchy, whilst not a technical description, usually represents a characteristic of the lower midrange. No 2" driver works well down there irrespective of the flare it's placed on. Try a 2220 JBL on it's own, x-ing to the BMS on an oblate speroid at 800Hz or so.
I also have a number of prosound amps and I can think of nothing worse sounding on a hi eff driver at close range than the low level distortions of these amps. But if you like it..... I'm just glad I don't have to listen to it.usa_satriani said:
Hi,
I already own JBL 2226H, I am not going to change them so soon and I like them a lot. Works really well on a pro Crown K2 amp
But I dont want to have a xover at 800 hz, first because it is in the middle of a lot of things, second because I don't think 15" speakers are as good as a compression at 800hz.
The highest will be 400hz. This is why I need a 2" compression driver.
Greg.
I already own JBL 2226H, I am not going to change them so soon and I like them a lot. Works really well on a pro Crown K2 amp
But I dont want to have a xover at 800 hz, first because it is in the middle of a lot of things, second because I don't think 15" speakers are as good as a compression at 800hz.
The highest will be 400hz. This is why I need a 2" compression driver.
Greg.
This afternoon I went to visit a guy I know who owns this equipement :
Altec 515B
1.5" TAD 4003
TAD tweeter
Passive filtering
Metronome drive, Artec Class A preamp & amp (he makes them)
The lower cutoff is at 450hz
Well it is very good, details, good dynamics good punch.
We only listened to classical and jazz music.
I realy don't think it won't be a problem to play a good 2" compression at 300hz or 400 at worst with a apropriate horn and with limiting the power.
But please what is clearly your advice ? A 2-way speaker with a 800hz cutoff ?
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Altec 515B
1.5" TAD 4003
TAD tweeter
Passive filtering
Metronome drive, Artec Class A preamp & amp (he makes them)
The lower cutoff is at 450hz
Well it is very good, details, good dynamics good punch.
We only listened to classical and jazz music.
I realy don't think it won't be a problem to play a good 2" compression at 300hz or 400 at worst with a apropriate horn and with limiting the power.
But please what is clearly your advice ? A 2-way speaker with a 800hz cutoff ?
ScottG said:
Hi Scott,
I may have found a deal on the McCauley 6520.
A few questions compared to the Beyma :
It has a flux density of 18000, a BL of 18 and a 3" coil ; Beyma : 20000 16.5 and 4"
Actually I'm sure are both great but could you confirm before I spend some precious euros of mine. Have you ever listened to McCauley speakers ?
Thanks a lot, you are very helpful.
Greg.
usa_satriani said:
You have it wrong..
Like Brett mentioned.. a standard compression driver isn't going to sound "punchy".. there simply isn't enough mass to do this. You can get it to sound a bit more "dynamic" (quasi-punchy) by using a lower slope for the highpass filter, (which unfortunetly also dramatically increases non-linear distortion), and/or greater compression at the start of the horn shape.. but again, it isn't something I'd call "punchy".
Quite possibly what you liked about the TAD/Altec system has more to do with the Altec drivers and their lowpass filter. And this brings me to my McCauley suggestion..
I suggested the McCauley's NOT for their compression driver.. but rather for their closed back midrange (10" driver). THAT is the driver that will give you a punchy tactil sensation in the midrange.. NOT the compression driver.
So no, I wouldn't suggest the McCauley compression driver alone.
There IS however a horn loaded driver that does give a greater tactile sensation, BUT its bandwidth doesn't go nearly as low as you want AND its costly.. However, it does come with a horn AND its built in your country - and as such should be easier to audition.. That driver is the Cabbasse DOM8 - and it is not a compression driver (despite an extraordinary efficiency).
Note that the subjective term "punchy" in general refers to the chest cavity region.. otherwise known as the upperbass/lowermidrange "a.k.a. the midbass" - 60-90 Hz. This isn't to say that you can't achieve a punchy (tactile) sound higher in freq., BUT most of that sensation still resides in that bandwidth. The best way to increase that is with a high force, high mass, very efficient driver in a fairly small sealed enclosure.
Despite all of the above.. it sounds like the driver you really want is this one on a large format horn:
http://www.community.chester.pa.us/files/specs/new/m4.pdf
Its not cheap either.. but it isn't "ALE in price".. (and you would still need a compression "tweeter" to acompany it).
Thanks again for your help,
let's summerise :
a 15" + 2"compression + tweeter : 300-400hz - 7khz
a 15" + 2"compression + tweeter : 500hz - 7khz
a 15" + 1" compression : 800-900hz
a 10" + 2" + tweeter then what do I do with my JBL 2226
The 4" compression would be amazing but way too expensive.
Life is a bitch
let's summerise :
a 15" + 2"compression + tweeter : 300-400hz - 7khz
a 15" + 2"compression + tweeter : 500hz - 7khz
a 15" + 1" compression : 800-900hz
a 10" + 2" + tweeter then what do I do with my JBL 2226
The 4" compression would be amazing but way too expensive.
Life is a bitch
I agree that 300Hz seems at least an octave low, even for a 2" driver. I've heard many very good, very dynamic systems that crossed at about 700Hz to a TAD, Altec or JBL compression driver and horn. So don't shy away from that point if you need to be there.
And I've heard tube amps that were much "punchier" than solid state. All depends on the amp and speaker.
If rock and roll is your thing, you may prefer a more agressive sound, that's what Rock is all about, anyway. Overdriven everything all along the signal chain. It's hard to get that sort of flavor out of most Hi-Fi type speakers and amps. So you seem to be on the right road there.
BTW, Oui, Je parle Francais - comme une vrais vache Espagnole! =) 1 an en Auvergne, 1 an a Toulouse et 7 ans a Paris.
And I've heard tube amps that were much "punchier" than solid state. All depends on the amp and speaker.
If rock and roll is your thing, you may prefer a more agressive sound, that's what Rock is all about, anyway. Overdriven everything all along the signal chain. It's hard to get that sort of flavor out of most Hi-Fi type speakers and amps. So you seem to be on the right road there.
BTW, Oui, Je parle Francais - comme une vrais vache Espagnole! =) 1 an en Auvergne, 1 an a Toulouse et 7 ans a Paris.
Salut on va faire en anglais pour tout le monde
Yeah you're right about the rocky sound ! I wouldn't say agressive but bright !
So OK 300 is maybe a bit low, 500hz would work as they design these compressions for this use.
So maybe a 10 or 12" with big magnet, high efficiency, a 2" + tweeter.
Passive filtering between mid and high, digital for low freq. Then a sub...
Greg.
on va faire en anglais pour tout le monde Yeah you're right about the rocky sound ! I wouldn't say agressive but bright !
So OK 300 is maybe a bit low, 500hz would work as they design these compressions for this use.
So maybe a 10 or 12" with big magnet, high efficiency, a 2" + tweeter.
Passive filtering between mid and high, digital for low freq. Then a sub...
Greg.
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