Speaker Suggestions! - Page 2 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Multi-Way

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 16th October 2001, 11:43 PM   #11
Super is offline Super  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Connecticut
Send a message via AIM to Super
Kelticwizard: I think that you have some valid points, but others that I disagree with.

First, I think that the satellite/sub combo isn't a bad idea, but it's far from optimal in my opinion. If you want to go down to 16 hz, you're going to need at least a 12 inch driver. However, I don't think that a driver of this size should be crossed over near 100 hz. In fact, my sub is crossed over at around 40 hz, and I think that it sounds awkward when crossed over above 80 hz. However, a 10 inch driver can approach that 100 hz crossover point with greater ease than a 12 inch driver. So, if you really want to replicate the sound to its fullest extent, then you could be looking at a two way, plus a 10 inch sub and a 12 inch or 15 inch sub for the sub-25 hz bass.

Also, yes, 42 hz may be the lowest note produced by a bass guitar, but at least the majority of my cd's aren't entirely live or instrumental. There is often software added notes which are considerably lower, and I can name quite a few DVD soundtracks which go below 30 hz as well.

Another thing you must remember, is that the less a driver (cone) has to move, the less distortion it is going to introduce. This is largely in part why you see many of todays speakers incorporating multiple midrange drivers, and then larger 10 or 12 inch drivers for the lows (I could also mention the less common line array speaker.)

But again, every speaker is bought or designed with a purpose in mind. Sure, you can save money by using a satellite/woofer combination, but in my opinion, I wouldn't want to build any speaker short of full range (at least down to 36 hz) for use as a reference speaker. Its better to be prepared for a track that exhibits deep bass, than to generalize and come up short when it does come around.
__________________
Bryan
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th October 2001, 12:01 PM   #12
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Alexandria, VA USA
Decide:

1. Just how much money are you willing to shove down this rathole called audio? Are you a nut like most of us? Will you be turned over to the dark side as someone here mentioned?

2. How big is where you live, and where you are likely to live for a while? It makes a difference in the the speakers you should build/buy. Those across the pond look at those of us in the US like we are nuts with our huge floorstanders.

3. Music only, mostly TV, or a mix? Can you have two setups? Sub-question - what music do you listen too? I like R&R, blues and some classical, some jazz - makes my choices really hard. The speaker that voices classical and then pounds out live rock recordings are strange animals. Ask it play a movie and its triple hard.

4. Wife, kids or dogs and cats? (i guess with subs, fish count too).

Finally, there is no perfect here. We are all searching for it, but have not found it yet. So you will have to make some choices.
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th October 2001, 11:01 PM   #13
Wizard of Kelts
diyAudio Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Connecticut, The Nutmeg State
Super:

I am getting the impression that Xavier is not so sure what kind of speaker he wants exactly. I think he has it in his head that he can save mucho bucks building it himself, (he can), so I think he is asking us for advice for some "nice speakers".

Therefore, I think we should stick to tried-and-true configurations and use established quality companies in our recommendations. A 10' subbass for 100 Hz down to 40, crossing over to a 12" sub-sub-bass from 40 down to 16 Hz might work great, but it is off the beaten path. And expensive.

I find that the small satellites-big subwoofer works best for three piece configurations. Large speakers crossing over to a sub that carries only one octave seems a waste of space and effort. You have to find space for a pair of large speakers, THEN find a place to put a large sub.

As for bass cutoffs, of course they are arbitrary. But after examining the cutoffs of expensive speakers for many years, as well as listening, this is the best list I could put together. Your own recommendation-36 Hz instead of 42-is less than a quarter octave lower than mine. Less than 3 keys on the piano. Nothing is more confusing or more of a turnoff than hitting a novice with an endless number of choices. The lowest note of a bass guitar makes as much sense for a cutoff as any. I have always considered it the highest cutoff you can have and consider yourself as having a truly high fidelity speaker.

Most DJ's speakers have 60 Hz cutoffs. In the tradeoff between high efficiency and bass cutoff, it is pretty well established that 60 Hz covers most of the bass notes for normal listening. So professional equipment makers decide that 60 Hz is low enough, and decide to increase the sensitivity so the speakers play loud enough to fill a hall. 42 Hz is a half octave below that professional cutoff.

I also gave Xavier the choice of going lower. If he wants lower than a 42 Hz cutoff-and he might-he probably will have to increase the size of his enclosure above 1-1.5 cu. ft, unless he wants to pay $150 or more for a bass speaker.

I am trying narrow down his choices for him.



  Reply With Quote
Old 18th October 2001, 12:49 AM   #14
Wizard of Kelts
diyAudio Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Connecticut, The Nutmeg State
Two drivers I had in mind were the Vifa M26WR-09 in a 1.5 cu ft. box, or the Peerless 831727 in a 1.5 cu ft or 2 cu ft box if Xavier wants just two speakers.

The Vifa is a 10" which will go down to 42 Hz in a 1.5 cu. ft box. $82.35 at http://www.madisound.com.

The Peerless will go down to 35 Hz in a 1.5 cu ft. box, or 30 Hz in 2 cu. ft box. $54 at Madisound.

Both are well respected companies whose major business is making drivers for loudspeaker companies. Their speakers appear in units that cost thousands.

If somebody just asked me offhand, with no other information, where would be a good place to start to build a nice set of speakers, these two units would come to mind first. Of course, the recommendation would change if he became more specific. But the common conception of a home loudspeaker is usually between 1 or 2 cubic feet.
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th October 2001, 02:45 AM   #15
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Guys, thanks your posts. I'm involved in software, but my mind has always been on Audio(Amplifiers etc but not speakers). I'm from India and right now I'm the US. I have no idea which driver, mid or tweeter are some of the best in market or its manufacturers. I don't know where to get them for the only online places I know are PartsExpress, MCMElectronics etc...My intentions to build a speaker system is not because it will cost less but it can outperform many, many speaker system. One will get very badly disappointed to know that speaker system they bought spending thousands of dollars sounded bad than GM's factory car speakers.
I like the option of BookShelf speakers with subwoofer. When I started looking for speakers for my home theater I estimated an amount of $3500/- for all 7 speakers and a sub woofer. I don't know whether this is too little/moderate/high, so I cam here to know about some of the best drivers, mids and tweeter and some of the best box design etc..
Guys I hope you'll continue to help me in bringing my dreams come true.

Thanks

-XL.
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th October 2001, 05:04 AM   #16
Wizard of Kelts
diyAudio Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Connecticut, The Nutmeg State
Xavier:

So you know what you want after all. Excellent.

A couple of questions:

A) About how big a subwoofer are you willing to tolerate, volumewise? You can give the answer in liters if you want.

B) How large the bookshelf speakers?

C) You are willing to spend $3500?

D) You want a seven speaker setup plus subwoof? Or left channel, right channel, and subwoof for a stereo?

Parts Express and MCM are excellent places to buy speakers, as is Madisound, http://www.madisound.com. Zalytron, http://www.zalytron.com, is also recommended, and has a retail store on Long Island if you are in the NYC area.

Parts Express has two excellent subwoofers, a 10" and 12", in the Dayton Titanics. Madisound sells the NHT 1259. The Shiva-Bryan just built one with it-is also highly recommended, http://www.adireaudio.com. There is also TC Sounds for subwoofers, http://www.tcsounds.com.

These are just recommended places and brands for your consideration. By no means is the list complete.


[Edited by kelticwizard on 10-18-2001 at 12:09 AM]
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th October 2001, 07:45 PM   #17
Super is offline Super  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Connecticut
Send a message via AIM to Super
In any case, I'd suggest the use of the Adire Audio AVA-250 amplifier with the sub. It gives ample power for a single driver, and has adjustable phase/crossover/output levels which are easily adjustable to your desires. This eliminates the need for passive crossovers, and also saves money in that you need not by another active crossover. I use this to power my sonosub, and have had great success with it. It costs under $300.
__________________
Bryan
  Reply With Quote
Old 19th October 2001, 12:42 AM   #18
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Guys, thanks again. Though my intentions were to build for music(L + R & Sub), I changed my mind incourse of time. Now I'm interested in all seven channels and a sub woofer. Volume of the sub can be some where between 3.5 cu.ft. - 6 cu.ft. I don't know, does those size seem fine? Thanks guys, awaiting your post.

-XL
  Reply With Quote
Old 19th October 2001, 04:06 AM   #19
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: 5280'
Default Entering the DIY world...

Something to consider is an evolving system using your own DIY 'hand-me downs' as the effects speakers. So start by building a modest pair of mains. I recommend a kit MTM configuration. Use these as a learning experience. When you want to 'upgrade', make a new set of bigger/more complicated mains and use the 1st pair as rears.

Regarding subs, if you have room for a larger box seriously consider using the Adire 15" Tempest. This is a very good driver and provides almost as much radiating area as 2-12"s for much less money.

BTW, TC-Sounds doesn't sell retail. They only sell OEM in 500pc lots. If you're interested in high excursion drivers checkout http://www.blueprintdrivers.com. Their 1503 is an excellent value.

Hope this helps

Regards
ThomasW
http://www.Klone-Audio.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 19th October 2001, 04:12 AM   #20
Wizard of Kelts
diyAudio Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Connecticut, The Nutmeg State
For the subwoofer part, I suggest you consult this thread right from this forum. It is the one where Bryan built his Shiva subwoofer. It also has a wealth of information from other contributors:
DIY Stereo Subs

One of the contributors there mentioned Audiomobile as a possibility. I have not tried them, but their specs indicate tremendous performance from a smaller box than other makes. http://www.audiomobileinc.com/main.htm


Just one thing to re-emphasize. If your box is 3.5 cu ft to 6 cu ft, then please try to go all the way down to 16 Hz. As I stated before, there are but a handful of CD's with material under that, (one of them-surprise!-is the cannon part from the 1812 Overture) but a fair amount of CD's with frequencies 16 Hz or above.

[Edited by kelticwizard on 10-18-2001 at 11:32 PM]
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
suggestions - my first DIY speaker stephen123 Multi-Way 2 18th January 2009 06:43 PM
Speaker Suggestions for a Grado Fan. Lewis Moon Multi-Way 8 30th September 2008 04:55 PM
Suggestions for first speaker project tdstr Multi-Way 6 17th April 2007 10:14 PM
Speaker Suggestions for GC dsavitsk Chip Amps 7 25th February 2005 05:36 PM
HTPC speaker Suggestions... AZ_Ron Multi-Way 4 12th October 2004 07:39 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 02:51 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2