Hi,
I have got some good response from respected people on the idea to mount the woofer in the horn mouth
Heres another idea which could be used in almost any room
Cornerhorn is said to use the whole end of the room as mouth, and this should mean that there will less phase problem with woofer ???
Besides this it should be easy to build, and another advantage is NO paralel surface - I hope my drawing makes sense
I have got some good response from respected people on the idea to mount the woofer in the horn mouth
Heres another idea which could be used in almost any room
Cornerhorn is said to use the whole end of the room as mouth, and this should mean that there will less phase problem with woofer ???
Besides this it should be easy to build, and another advantage is NO paralel surface - I hope my drawing makes sense
Attachments
Yep, that works for me. I have 2 10" wide range in corner enclosers, presently assisted by a 10" bass. Not a sub, nothing subsonic about it.
I found the location of the bass critical. It wants to be in one corner. In the centre of the wall, it gave a new meaning to walking bass. I tried reversing the phase without joy. That's in a room just shy of 13ft wide.
Best BSC I know of.
Geoff
I found the location of the bass critical. It wants to be in one corner. In the centre of the wall, it gave a new meaning to walking bass. I tried reversing the phase without joy. That's in a room just shy of 13ft wide.
Best BSC I know of.
Geoff
Ah ah. Rule no 1. The system must match the room. The room becomes part of the system.
You could invert them. Place them UP in the otherwise unused corners. I prefer my W/R above ear level. Less clutter, clean air etc.
Geoff.
edit: Economical speakers can be used, with success, if we are cunning.
You could invert them. Place them UP in the otherwise unused corners. I prefer my W/R above ear level. Less clutter, clean air etc.
Geoff.
edit: Economical speakers can be used, with success, if we are cunning.
You could try not having the drivers in the corners but having just the mouth in the corners.
Since the corner will augment the mouth, you will only need to build the long narrow section of the horn which can run from driver to corner.
Since the corner is a conical section, experiment with values for the built mouth size to match so that the corner comes closest to approximating your flare, rather than acting like a jump in size or conversely, a restriction.
Since the corner will augment the mouth, you will only need to build the long narrow section of the horn which can run from driver to corner.
Since the corner is a conical section, experiment with values for the built mouth size to match so that the corner comes closest to approximating your flare, rather than acting like a jump in size or conversely, a restriction.
Its like a puzzle
For several years i have thought of how to make a SIMPLE triangular shaped corner horn
IF you mount speaker on the front baffle, you will have the last horn section in the corner, and thereby loose space and surface to construct the horn.... hope it makes sense
The solution came with the idea of mounting the driver in hornmouth, and thereby have the last horn section away from the corner, having much more surface to work with - and at the same time have the corner to load the front of driver
Problem is ofcourse, that it is restricted to use only as basshorn - on the other hand it ought to be wider in frequency than a frontloaded horn - anyway the idea was to use a cheap 12", which would be of no use at higher frquencies anyway
actually there is a nice cheap 12" Pioneer, 91-92db, Fs 19hz(?)
Any ideas of how low such a thing would go, and which efficiency to expect with such a driver ?????
For several years i have thought of how to make a SIMPLE triangular shaped corner horn
IF you mount speaker on the front baffle, you will have the last horn section in the corner, and thereby loose space and surface to construct the horn.... hope it makes sense
The solution came with the idea of mounting the driver in hornmouth, and thereby have the last horn section away from the corner, having much more surface to work with - and at the same time have the corner to load the front of driver
Problem is ofcourse, that it is restricted to use only as basshorn - on the other hand it ought to be wider in frequency than a frontloaded horn - anyway the idea was to use a cheap 12", which would be of no use at higher frquencies anyway
actually there is a nice cheap 12" Pioneer, 91-92db, Fs 19hz(?)
Any ideas of how low such a thing would go, and which efficiency to expect with such a driver ?????
Nothing like a puzzle to start the day.
Due to the non directional attributes of speakers at low frequencies,
any speaker placed in a corner, becomes horn loaded. A square box will leave gaps, reducing coupling.
The triangle x-section overcomes that. The simplest way is a front ported BR. You could go all out and build a Klipsch, lots of timber and 45 deg cuts.
In between those extreems is the corner cabinet design by Wharfedale in the 50s. The duct port is in the back, or the apex, firing down. The cabinet is on legs, so the port breathes in the very corner of the room.
Now, that 10 bass driver I mentioned earlier is nothing more than a Dai-1chi HWF10-40. Bought about 15 years back. Spent most of it's life in a cupboard, and a few months as a sub in my son's car.
I wanted something to reinforce the lower end, the 10" w/r not quite getting there. So one of my other Wharfedales came out of its cabinet, and in went the HF10-40, connected to a Altec Lansing ACS45 mm system with a low pass filter, so the bass only covers up to 80 Hz. It's good when a "throw together" works! Great when there's no additional cost.
That Pioneer 12 would probably work best in a sealed enclosure of about 3 cubic feet if the fs is 19Hz. My 10" driver's fs is 41Hz, hence the BR, which needs a slightly longer port. Or treat the cone.
Food for thought.
Geoff
Due to the non directional attributes of speakers at low frequencies,
any speaker placed in a corner, becomes horn loaded. A square box will leave gaps, reducing coupling.
The triangle x-section overcomes that. The simplest way is a front ported BR. You could go all out and build a Klipsch, lots of timber and 45 deg cuts.
In between those extreems is the corner cabinet design by Wharfedale in the 50s. The duct port is in the back, or the apex, firing down. The cabinet is on legs, so the port breathes in the very corner of the room.
Now, that 10 bass driver I mentioned earlier is nothing more than a Dai-1chi HWF10-40. Bought about 15 years back. Spent most of it's life in a cupboard, and a few months as a sub in my son's car.
I wanted something to reinforce the lower end, the 10" w/r not quite getting there. So one of my other Wharfedales came out of its cabinet, and in went the HF10-40, connected to a Altec Lansing ACS45 mm system with a low pass filter, so the bass only covers up to 80 Hz. It's good when a "throw together" works! Great when there's no additional cost.
That Pioneer 12 would probably work best in a sealed enclosure of about 3 cubic feet if the fs is 19Hz. My 10" driver's fs is 41Hz, hence the BR, which needs a slightly longer port. Or treat the cone.
Food for thought.
Geoff
Some thoughts on this. If you were to build a fairly common baffle, you could attach a bass horn that went into the corner. If you lined up your cutoffs and tuned and damped accordingly, the horn would make baffle step compensation unnecessary, and this means the driver wouldn't need to go into the corner.
OTOH if you design the horn to play louder than the driver and only want bass from it, it isn't going to matter as much where the driver goes.
In my experience, appropriately designed corner loaded bass horns can get you to 20Hz with ease.
OTOH if you design the horn to play louder than the driver and only want bass from it, it isn't going to matter as much where the driver goes.
In my experience, appropriately designed corner loaded bass horns can get you to 20Hz with ease.
That reference appears to be out of print, but used available from:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-list...p_0/103-0633529-9754267?ie=UTF8&condition=all
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-list...p_0/103-0633529-9754267?ie=UTF8&condition=all
Here's another example. I like the comments, sound familar from years gone buy.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=91712
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=91712
Hi,
I thank you all for your positive and enthusiastic response, to one of my many crazy ideas
DILEMMA.... It is my strong belief that to get a good coherent speaker, the bass needs to play some midrange to integrate well
And this means we may have to disregard some of the lowest octaves
My plan now is to order four of those 12" Pioneer
"On paper" I find it one of the most interesting woofers I have seen fore while, working very well in a closed box
I hope to build a nice cheap "minimal" speaker, and present it here, hopefully
Cheers
I thank you all for your positive and enthusiastic response, to one of my many crazy ideas
DILEMMA.... It is my strong belief that to get a good coherent speaker, the bass needs to play some midrange to integrate well
And this means we may have to disregard some of the lowest octaves
My plan now is to order four of those 12" Pioneer
"On paper" I find it one of the most interesting woofers I have seen fore while, working very well in a closed box
I hope to build a nice cheap "minimal" speaker, and present it here, hopefully
Cheers
tinitus, I felt the same way you do, 30 years ago. I am now of the belief that we need to utilise a widerange driver and suppliment it with a bass unit.
The "top end" of my current system spent 15 or so years retricted by a 500 Hz crossover. I had them modified to my specs. It is only 3 months since running those full range. All I can say is I am sorry I didn't go that way years ago.
The bass end of the original system consisted of Altec 411-8As. The top end was to replicate the Altec 511 horn, and now comes pretty close to it in clarity and sensitivty. That system was modelled/inspired on/by the Altec Barcelona, 3.5K of Aussie dollars in 1976 for a pair.
What I have learnt from this is to avoid crossovers in the 150 hz to 6khz or higher.
Hey, your idea's not crazy. But see if you can stretch the mid down to 100 hz or so instead of stretching the bass up. That's how the guy's doing OBs go.
Geoff.
The "top end" of my current system spent 15 or so years retricted by a 500 Hz crossover. I had them modified to my specs. It is only 3 months since running those full range. All I can say is I am sorry I didn't go that way years ago.
The bass end of the original system consisted of Altec 411-8As. The top end was to replicate the Altec 511 horn, and now comes pretty close to it in clarity and sensitivty. That system was modelled/inspired on/by the Altec Barcelona, 3.5K of Aussie dollars in 1976 for a pair.
What I have learnt from this is to avoid crossovers in the 150 hz to 6khz or higher.
Hey, your idea's not crazy. But see if you can stretch the mid down to 100 hz or so instead of stretching the bass up. That's how the guy's doing OBs go.
Geoff.
All true, but no matter what we do it will contain some compromize, which could mean the use of subamps and active filter
My present idea is to try some form of 3.5-way, allthough I newer liked this "0.5-way" bass, but it might have some advantages
And your right, ideally the upper bass should play almost fullrange - this might be a problem with the 12" Pioneer which seem to have some nasty peaks - I have always avoided those
To get a coherent speaker, great care must be taken in the crossover - but damm, I am tired of crossovers
We might end up with one of the new Tone Tubby alnico in a BIB
At the moment I would like to see the new HEMP drivers
My present idea is to try some form of 3.5-way, allthough I newer liked this "0.5-way" bass, but it might have some advantages
And your right, ideally the upper bass should play almost fullrange - this might be a problem with the 12" Pioneer which seem to have some nasty peaks - I have always avoided those
To get a coherent speaker, great care must be taken in the crossover - but damm, I am tired of crossovers
We might end up with one of the new Tone Tubby alnico in a BIB
At the moment I would like to see the new HEMP drivers
Have you seen this?
http://www.jogis-roehrenbude.de/LS-Box/Robert-Busch-Horn/Hornlautsprecher.htm
down the page, the second project. What do you think of it?
http://www.jogis-roehrenbude.de/LS-Box/Robert-Busch-Horn/Hornlautsprecher.htm
down the page, the second project. What do you think of it?
Hi tinitus
"The main system to compliment the corner horn, could be a 10" AudioNirvana with a ribbon on top"
I have looked at the AN. Would like to here one. Ribbons are clean and crisp, but I don't know of any that go low enough. IMHO, tweeter only.
"Geoff, I think this would be much more to your liking"
It's not my ears you have to please. I know I can be a bit autocratic at times, that's just me trying to get my view accross, and to help.
"And ofcourse a bunch of 12" in the corners could replace the basshorn"
You will need a forrest of ribbons to match. And yes, all sound repro has compromises. No matter how well we think our systems are, they are not a patch on live music.
That patent on the corner baffle: That'll teach me for sitting on an idea too long! My idea was to have a trapezoidal baffle in the corner, leaving a gap at the sides, to form a slot BR. I have run out of corners!
Ah, the Elkhorn. An alternate is a front firing WR rear horn loaded.
"The main system to compliment the corner horn, could be a 10" AudioNirvana with a ribbon on top"
I have looked at the AN. Would like to here one. Ribbons are clean and crisp, but I don't know of any that go low enough. IMHO, tweeter only.
"Geoff, I think this would be much more to your liking"
It's not my ears you have to please. I know I can be a bit autocratic at times, that's just me trying to get my view accross, and to help.
"And ofcourse a bunch of 12" in the corners could replace the basshorn"
You will need a forrest of ribbons to match. And yes, all sound repro has compromises. No matter how well we think our systems are, they are not a patch on live music.
That patent on the corner baffle: That'll teach me for sitting on an idea too long! My idea was to have a trapezoidal baffle in the corner, leaving a gap at the sides, to form a slot BR. I have run out of corners!
Ah, the Elkhorn. An alternate is a front firing WR rear horn loaded.
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