I'm trying to see if I can build an HT setup that is better than the Onkyo hs-s790 and cheaper.
Surrounds:
I was looking at using the tangband w3-871s, one each for 5 or 7 surrounds. What enclosures would you recommend? I was thinking of using the needle for the front left and right and something smaller for the rest (only so much space), would this be a problem? Would you recommend a sub for this setup?
If so,
Would a pair of W4-992S in some kind of horn make a decent sub? Thinkin a Dayton 70w or Bash 300w amp.
What is the best sub-$200 receiver for this type of thing?
Thanks!
Surrounds:
I was looking at using the tangband w3-871s, one each for 5 or 7 surrounds. What enclosures would you recommend? I was thinking of using the needle for the front left and right and something smaller for the rest (only so much space), would this be a problem? Would you recommend a sub for this setup?
If so,
Would a pair of W4-992S in some kind of horn make a decent sub? Thinkin a Dayton 70w or Bash 300w amp.
What is the best sub-$200 receiver for this type of thing?
Thanks!
$450 for a receiver, five speakers, and a sub?
You can definitely do better than that, but it's hard to beat the cost. Your time isn't free, and making six speaker cabinets would be tough.
I made some $30 surrounds that look like this:
They sound reasonably good, but they're kind of ugly. I wouldn't use them as main speakers or anything, but for adding some ambiance to movies they do a great job. That's the Aurasound NS3-193 wide range driver. When I redo this, I'm going to use a plywood baffle, a 3/4" dayton tweeter, a crossover with baffle step compensation, and a veneer around the pipe. Until then, I've added metal legs instead of the duct taped cardboard.
For the receiver, I use the Panasonic SA-XR55. I see it on sale at J and R for $219. I strongly recommend this receiver. It only weighs 10 pounds because it uses digital amplification- this also allows great energy efficiency. I use it with some fairly nice speakers (the Modula MT), and it does a really nice job. The digital filters to run the speakers in "small" mode have a nice range of adjustment, and overall the sound is top notch. For your budget, there's no way you'll be able to make speakers that would make this receiver a weak link.
With such a tight budget constraint on the drivers, I do recommend a sub. I have 0.75 cubic foot ported boxes with 7" woofers, and I feel like it's just barely enough for me not to miss a sub. That's mostly because I live in an apartment, and I try not to turn it up too much.
I hope that helps. Do you have tools, a budget, or any other further information?
You can definitely do better than that, but it's hard to beat the cost. Your time isn't free, and making six speaker cabinets would be tough.
I made some $30 surrounds that look like this:
They sound reasonably good, but they're kind of ugly. I wouldn't use them as main speakers or anything, but for adding some ambiance to movies they do a great job. That's the Aurasound NS3-193 wide range driver. When I redo this, I'm going to use a plywood baffle, a 3/4" dayton tweeter, a crossover with baffle step compensation, and a veneer around the pipe. Until then, I've added metal legs instead of the duct taped cardboard.
For the receiver, I use the Panasonic SA-XR55. I see it on sale at J and R for $219. I strongly recommend this receiver. It only weighs 10 pounds because it uses digital amplification- this also allows great energy efficiency. I use it with some fairly nice speakers (the Modula MT), and it does a really nice job. The digital filters to run the speakers in "small" mode have a nice range of adjustment, and overall the sound is top notch. For your budget, there's no way you'll be able to make speakers that would make this receiver a weak link.
With such a tight budget constraint on the drivers, I do recommend a sub. I have 0.75 cubic foot ported boxes with 7" woofers, and I feel like it's just barely enough for me not to miss a sub. That's mostly because I live in an apartment, and I try not to turn it up too much.
I hope that helps. Do you have tools, a budget, or any other further information?
Heres what I have so far:
HI-VI B3S 3" SHIELDED ALUMINUM DRIVER S .. $9.36x7 $65.52
DAYTON SD315-88 12" SHIELDED DVC SUBWOO .. $39.25
DAYTON ND20FA-6 3/4" NEODYMIUM DOME TWE . $4.10x7 $28.70
DAYTON SA240-B 240W SUBWOOFER AMPLIFIER .. $99.00
Subtotal: $232.47
I'd like to stay around ~$400. My time... not worth so much, I'm about to go on Christmas break for a month. I have the basic tools (drills, circular saw, miter saw). I wouldnt mind getting a table saw or router, not included in the budget.
The SA-XR55 sometimes goes on sale on amazon for ~150. So, not including mdf thats a total of about $380. I could use the 70w Dayton amp and save $50 but dont know if it would be worth it.
Im thinking the front left and right in the needle enclosure and the rest in something like this Slimline satellites.
The Onkyo HT-S790 is one the highest rated HTIB, would this setup beat it?
HI-VI B3S 3" SHIELDED ALUMINUM DRIVER S .. $9.36x7 $65.52
DAYTON SD315-88 12" SHIELDED DVC SUBWOO .. $39.25
DAYTON ND20FA-6 3/4" NEODYMIUM DOME TWE . $4.10x7 $28.70
DAYTON SA240-B 240W SUBWOOFER AMPLIFIER .. $99.00
Subtotal: $232.47
I'd like to stay around ~$400. My time... not worth so much, I'm about to go on Christmas break for a month. I have the basic tools (drills, circular saw, miter saw). I wouldnt mind getting a table saw or router, not included in the budget.
The SA-XR55 sometimes goes on sale on amazon for ~150. So, not including mdf thats a total of about $380. I could use the 70w Dayton amp and save $50 but dont know if it would be worth it.
Im thinking the front left and right in the needle enclosure and the rest in something like this Slimline satellites.
The Onkyo HT-S790 is one the highest rated HTIB, would this setup beat it?
Hi,
You should not substitute the B3S for the NS3 in Zaph's design.
For the B3S you should forgo the tweeters and uses Zaphs design,
1.5 to 2 litres sealed. For L and R you could make them 0.5 ways by
having 2 drivers in 3 to 4 litres sealed (if used away from wallls).
Rearranging Z's c/o for this is fairly straightforward.
Or use Zaphs NS3+ND20 design for L+R and B3S design for the others.
/sreten.
You should not substitute the B3S for the NS3 in Zaph's design.
For the B3S you should forgo the tweeters and uses Zaphs design,
1.5 to 2 litres sealed. For L and R you could make them 0.5 ways by
having 2 drivers in 3 to 4 litres sealed (if used away from wallls).
Rearranging Z's c/o for this is fairly straightforward.
Or use Zaphs NS3+ND20 design for L+R and B3S design for the others.
/sreten.It will probably not be as loud as the Onkyo system. They use two 5" drivers per front speaker, and a 10" sub. They are more capable of having a crossover at or below 100 hz since the woofers are in a ported box.
I agree with Sreten- don't make a change in drivers with Zaph's design. The NS3 project from Zaph would be OK in the front, and the B3S would be fine in back. In order to get decently loud without a problem, you WILL need a sub. I would expect a need to crossover as high as 150 hz (one of the settings on the receiver I mentioned) to keep the little 3" drivers from having to work too hard.
Does anybody out there know a cheap, low distortion, sub that will play up to 200 hz? I have a few ideas away from Parts Express, such as at Mach 5 Audio and Ascendant Audio, but they don't have the Parts Express free holiday shipping.
I agree with Sreten- don't make a change in drivers with Zaph's design. The NS3 project from Zaph would be OK in the front, and the B3S would be fine in back. In order to get decently loud without a problem, you WILL need a sub. I would expect a need to crossover as high as 150 hz (one of the settings on the receiver I mentioned) to keep the little 3" drivers from having to work too hard.
Does anybody out there know a cheap, low distortion, sub that will play up to 200 hz? I have a few ideas away from Parts Express, such as at Mach 5 Audio and Ascendant Audio, but they don't have the Parts Express free holiday shipping.
You're quite right, kellyinvestor. Try adding a tweeter! Experiment!
I know, I know, of course Zaph knows what he's doing, Sreten. But all too often someone starts a thread with some design ideas and people say something like "Don't bother with your own ideas, just build Zaph's xxx design".
Not trying to annoy anyone here, I just want to encourage people to play around. I'm a total novice myself, but if I only built well documented designs it wouldn't be any fun.
Andrew.
I know, I know, of course Zaph knows what he's doing, Sreten. But all too often someone starts a thread with some design ideas and people say something like "Don't bother with your own ideas, just build Zaph's xxx design".
Not trying to annoy anyone here, I just want to encourage people to play around. I'm a total novice myself, but if I only built well documented designs it wouldn't be any fun.
Andrew.
I agree, it's a lot of fun to experiment and learn. As far as adding a tweeter with the B3S, I say it's not a bad idea. A tweeter will have better dispersion, and may be cleaner.
That particular tweeter is cheap enough that you aren't risking much to try it out. The crossover will take some work, though. In my opinion, the NS3-193 is still worth the extra cost. It has some serious excursion capability for one so small, and will be able to integrate with a sub more easily.
That particular tweeter is cheap enough that you aren't risking much to try it out. The crossover will take some work, though. In my opinion, the NS3-193 is still worth the extra cost. It has some serious excursion capability for one so small, and will be able to integrate with a sub more easily.
The problem with adding a tweeter to the B3S design of Zaph's is that then there is no real reason to use a 3" driver. My understanding was that the whole point of using a 3" full range driver was to try and cover as large a range as possible with a single driver. If you are going to add a tweeter, and are going to change the crossover, then why not add a larger mid-woofer and make a whole new design (which you are doing anyway)? There are a ton of 2 way designs available that will perhaps provide a better sound than the B3S.
Please don't take this post as a knock on trying new stuff - I am all for that. But adding a tweeter to this particular design doesn't seem to be the best option.
Please don't take this post as a knock on trying new stuff - I am all for that. But adding a tweeter to this particular design doesn't seem to be the best option.
So what about going with a larger mid-range? A 5" and a tweeter would have much higher power handling than the Aura and B3S. How good is GoldWood overall? The fact that they have never been in any of Zaphs shootouts is kind of scary.... The combo of the 5" and tweeter would be only barely higher than the B3S Goldwood 5 1/4". The Aura (according to Zaph) requires a tweeter, so I wouldn't gain much there over the B3S.
Under moderation......
Forgot to ask, is it generally considered to be a good/bad idea to use different speakers for the fronts and surrounds? If I keep it as cheap as possible on the four surrounds, ie just an N3S, I could maybe get a little higher end on the fronts and still stay near budget.
Forgot to ask, is it generally considered to be a good/bad idea to use different speakers for the fronts and surrounds? If I keep it as cheap as possible on the four surrounds, ie just an N3S, I could maybe get a little higher end on the fronts and still stay near budget.
In my experience, most of the sound really comes from the front speakers. That's where 99% of the dialog is, as well as the majority of the soundtrack. The rear speakers shouldn't be "cheesy", but they don't need to be the last word in fidelity either.
Basically, these are the flaws I think are OK for rear speakers:
-Don't need huge bass or soaring highs
-Don't need pinpoint imaging
-Don't need insane SPL capability
These are the flaws I think are unacceptable for rear speakers:
-Bad distortion (lets me locate where the sound is coming from)
-Boxy sound (either from internal resonance, or weak speaker walls)
-Buzzing, rattling, port chuffing, etc.
I think some sealed 3 inch drivers like the B3S or the NS3-193 are great candidates for rear speakers in a low-budget surround system.
Basically, these are the flaws I think are OK for rear speakers:
-Don't need huge bass or soaring highs
-Don't need pinpoint imaging
-Don't need insane SPL capability
These are the flaws I think are unacceptable for rear speakers:
-Bad distortion (lets me locate where the sound is coming from)
-Boxy sound (either from internal resonance, or weak speaker walls)
-Buzzing, rattling, port chuffing, etc.
I think some sealed 3 inch drivers like the B3S or the NS3-193 are great candidates for rear speakers in a low-budget surround system.
I think it is a good idea to use the same drivers in left, right and center channels so panned sounds cross the screen smoothly. The other thing to consider if making a strictly HT setup is the various freq cutoffs in the THX spec. Front channels are only "expected" to handle down to 80hz and side channels are something like 125hz. The thx spec intends for a subwoofer to handle from 80 down.* Now, there is no way to know if movies actually follow those guidelines - and if you want to listen to 2-channel audio out of the fronts, there is no reason to not aim for as wide a response as possible.
I don't really know anything about the Goldwood driver except they do not provide a frequency plot so it would be guess work designing a crossover. You can always just start with L+R, then add on and money and time permit. Or go for the Onkyo setup, it would be hard to beat the quality for the same price.
*this is from my (bad) memory, so someone please correct me if this is wrong.
I don't really know anything about the Goldwood driver except they do not provide a frequency plot so it would be guess work designing a crossover. You can always just start with L+R, then add on and money and time permit. Or go for the Onkyo setup, it would be hard to beat the quality for the same price.
*this is from my (bad) memory, so someone please correct me if this is wrong.
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