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Old 30th December 2010, 04:15 AM   #511
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I guess it's ok to post the Flying V here too.
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Old 30th December 2010, 04:21 AM   #512
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And maybe the 1233's
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Old 30th December 2010, 04:22 AM   #513
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Hey Grandville, welcome to the club.
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Old 30th December 2010, 04:38 AM   #514
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Hi Grandville - you got the upside down ones. They were done that way to be more compact. You can always flip them over and put the horns on top if you want.

Yeah, 50-60 Hz is all you're going to get with the big port like that. Even with the horn blocking part of the port. Closing them a good bit will give you more bass extension. EQ just won't get it until you report them.

The flares rattle, for sure. I braced mine with curved braces and painted the backs with asphalt paint mixed with sand. Better, but still not perfect. I've found some water based caulk made by DAP that I'm going to spread in a thick layer back there to damp them more.

Bracing helps too. Side to side, front to back. I stapled a big piece of fiberglass in the wall behind the woofer. It presses on the woofer when the back wall is screwed in and braces it.

These can be great Hi-Fi speakers with some work. Congratualtion!
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Old 30th December 2010, 05:06 AM   #515
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Originally Posted by panomaniac View Post
Yeah, 50-60 Hz is all you're going to get with the big port like that.
They seem to work nice if you put the horn on top and use a filler board that leaves about 75-90 sq. inch port.
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Old 30th December 2010, 08:24 AM   #516
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Originally Posted by grandville45 View Post
......and it seems they really come on around 50-80 hz? Really nothng lower that I can hear when i eg?

I had to boost some in the 125-250 range too, So I have a curve starting at 40 and increasing a little til i come back down around 125 i think.......

I would like pictures of what you guys have done to brace the flares and cabs in general, they seem to rattle pretty well when turned up loud.
Greets!

They're tuned around 65 Hz, so yeah, ~50 Hz is where they start loading and why EQing any lower just results in more driver 'flapping' which increases VC heating and maybe even burnout, so if you're going to EQ it to 40 Hz, then the cab needs to be tuned to at least 40 Hz and preferably to around 32 Hz.

Yeah, the horn starts unloading around 175 Hz, so the cab has a strong step response if not driven with the matching impedance it was designed for.

Typically the horn cavities are filled to both brace and damp them. Some have used sand, others with expanding foam (careful you don't blow them out) while I used kitty litter/oil dry. For an 825 cab like yours, it's necessary to add side block off plates. Folks typically drill fill holes in the top plate, but I prefer to drill them in the block off plates.

I've no pictures of my own and these are the only ones I saved links to:

building my Altec A7 -like Speakers

Vintage Altec

The back plates need significant bracing, so typically are done ~like the later cabs: http://www.lansingheritage.org/image...closures11.jpg

Side, bottom plates need either a second layer of void free plywood laminated to them or nominally 1x3 planks or 3/4" plywood ribs glued on edge. The horn plate can either be braced with a laminated plate or mount the HF horn on it and use its mounting to brace it. Adding ribs to the vent baffle board(s) is a good plan too.

If mounting the horn on top, best to scrap the two piece baffle and make one big one, so that the vent is at the extreme bottom.

For HIFI/HT apps, I recommend lining both sides, back and top above the driver and underside of the horn with 1" acoustic fiberglass insulation.

GM
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Old 30th December 2010, 12:17 PM   #517
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Thanks for the Welcome Guys!... I will take pics of what i am doing and the foam I have and u can tell me if I am headed in the right direction ... also To Tune it lower just add another baffle board on top of the one their? so i would be closer to the bottom of the HF horn then? I cut a couple of boards to try that I will take pics of those too..The foam we have at work is the polyuerthane type foam like used in carpet pad etc.When u fill up that cavity in the flare do u take away from the space for the driver or no? GM I am guessing u mean i need a board to cover up that area between wall and baffle board? so it is one solid piece? I really want to send that other 8A in and get done by GPA, I noticed last night the other one the suspension is very loose feeling compared to my beyma, is that normal for the altecs? I really like the way the new ones are built with the horn section and all that bracing!.Was watching Basic last night and just love how these sound for movies!! After all they are movie theater speakers .I was lucky enough to pick these up for $50

Last edited by grandville45; 30th December 2010 at 12:47 PM.
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Old 30th December 2010, 02:57 PM   #518
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50 bucks is a stupid good deal.

As said above, you will need to close down that port. And to do that you probably need to remove the horn. Tuning the box to 32 Hz would be a hole in the ply of about 14-15 sq in. (GM, can you check me on that?)

If you want to invest some $$$ in your "cheap speakers" then send all the drivers to GPA for a redo. Best to talk to them on the phone, email they are not good at. The 416 should not be loose, so there may be a problem. It's not a super stiff driver, but it doesn't flop, either.

As regards the flares, there were some built with the back of the flair open, like yours and mine. Bracing and damping done right can work wonders. Some had the flares sealed off, the woofer board went all the way across. Those can be filled with something as GM suggests.

Port it right and get rid of the rattles, and you'll have a wonderful speaker.
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Old 30th December 2010, 04:46 PM   #519
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Yea I jumped on it when i seen it on craigslist! they were supposed to be both blown on the bottom,much to my surprise only the one is, and that one i think has been done already as it doesn't have the vented dust cap like the other one, I wouldn't say the driver flops it just is alot looser then the beyma one is all, easier to push may be a better word? I found this online, looks like the combo cabs may have been easier to reach a little further down? probably cause the horn blocks away some of that big port?
What part is the reflex portion?

>http://www.lansingheritage.org/image...ure/page05.jpg

Last edited by grandville45; 30th December 2010 at 05:01 PM.
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Old 30th December 2010, 08:36 PM   #520
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With the big port, the box is sort of part reflex, part back loaded horn. Efficient, but it won't play low. Get the horn out and make a smaller port. Anything from about 50 sq inches on down to 15 is worth trying. Easy to do with some strips of plywood.
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