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Old 28th November 2006, 10:04 PM   #1
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Default newbie with question

I have built a few kits and I am working on a new project. My main speakers for my system are maggie mg-III se. I have fallen in love with ribbion tweeters. I tried to build this kit designed by a hobbiest.

http://www.partsexpress.com/projects...mni/index.html

The designer stated that he used parts lying around to make this speaeker. I found that the merging of the woofer and tweeter to be less than perfect. My ears tell me it is a time issue. The tweeter is lightning fast wich is what I love about planar and ribbion speakers. The woofer seems "behind".

I want to actually use this tweeter in my car. It sounds crazy but I am a little nuts. I am definetly not using the vifa again. My question is how do I find a "faster" driver? In listening to speakers I have found that speakers with great attack like monitor audio, focal etc... use metal or more exotic materils for the cones. What specs indicate response time? Does anybody have any reccomendations for 5" to 6 1/2" drivers?

I have heard and it seems to make sense that high effeciency can be an indication of attack. It seems right high effeciency may come from lighter cones, motor structers, VC's etc. This is not to say that an 18" 95db driver would be as fast as an 3" dome midrange but comparing apples to apples it may ring true. Anyone have any ideas.

I will use all active crossovers. I will have a subwoofer. I dont want to spend too much. This is what I was leaning twords.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshow...number=295-372

Thanks
-Dan
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Old 29th November 2006, 03:05 AM   #2
lineup is offline lineup  Sweden
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The Dayton Reference Series sets a new standard of value in high-performance loudspeaker drivers.
------
Woofer features a black anodized cone,
heavy-duty 6-hole cast frame,
low-loss rubber surround,
solid aluminum phase plug,
rubber magnet boot,
and gold terminals.

Specifications:
*Power handling: 40 watts RMS/65 watts max
*VCdia: 1"
*Le: .50 mH
*Impedance: 4 ohms
*Re: 2.9 ohms
*SPL: 92.0 dB 2.83V/1m
*Frequency range: 50-3,000 Hz
*Fs: 55 Hz
*Vas: .41 cu. ft.
*Qts: .41
*Qms: 2.75
*Qes: .48
*Xmax: 4.4 mm


Click the image to open in full size.
DAYTON RS150-4
6" REFERENCE SERIES WOOFER 4 OHM
Price: $28.55 EA

Parts Express, 725 Pleasant Valley Dr., Springboro, Ohio 45066
http://www.partsexpress.com/


Looks like a very fine 6" driver to me and should be fit for car use.
The good SPL, 92 dB, is above average.
And many good features.



What makes me wonder is the VERY LOW PRICE.
Focal and Scan-Speak might not make many 4 Ohm drivers targeted for car use.
But, from them, a high class 6-7"woofer can cost you like $150-$250.
$28.55 is nothing in compare ....
Is there a catch here

On the other hand, price is not always a perfect indicator for what is good.
History shows that some low price 'every day' woofers has turned out to be somewhat classical items,
and very good if used in the right way.


lineup
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Old 29th November 2006, 03:35 AM   #3
lineup is offline lineup  Sweden
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Quote:
Originally posted by abc11
it looks to me like a bargain,
the driver looks very professional with cast frame etc
another great find from lineup

kind regards
Alfred
Yes, It really looks like good class.
I am glad to hear some other member here confirm.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now Alfred, I did not find this one woofer.
It is 'a find' from topic starter drummerwhearing.
The second link in his first post goes to this woofer.
Quote:
drummerwhearing:
I will use all active crossovers.
I will have a subwoofer.
I dont want to spend too much.

This is what I was leaning towards:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshow...number=295-372
.


Thanks very much anyway, abc11
The expression: .... another great find by lineup
would mean, you think, me, lineup have found something useful, before.

Such words can warm your heart ..... and they surely did.
Kind words like that are not too much of.
To be truthful, these days there is an enormous shortage of human kindness everywhere.

Regards
lineup


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Appendix A. The little extra lineup goodie.

What the world needs now is love, sweet love
It's the only thing that there's just too little of
What the world needs now is love, sweet love,
No not just for some but for everyone.

Lord, we don't need another mountain,
There are mountains and hillsides enough to climb
There are oceans and rivers enough to cross,
Enough to last till the end of time.

What the world needs now is love, sweet love
It's the only thing that there's just too little of
What the world needs now is love, sweet love,
No, not just for some but for everyone.


full version: What the World Needs Now is Love - by Burt Bacharach

http://www.bacharachonline.com/
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Old 29th November 2006, 03:44 AM   #4
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I believe the Daytons are as cost-effective as they are because they are made in an Asian country - maybe China? - lower labor costs. Most of the other high-end drivers are European.

If there's any "catch" with the Dayton aluminum woofers it's in the crossover design - as with just about all metal woofers, they have very erratic and "peaky" break-up behavior at higher frequencies, thus require more complex crossovers. Designers usually use fourth-order slopes and relatively low crossover points (with suitable tweeters) to deal with this.

I'm looking at building a home system with the 8 ohm Daytons, and the crossover designs I've seen use a lot of components and therefore the project cost adds up fast.

I don't mean to try to discourage you from using these drivers - there really aren't a lot of high-end car speakers out there that are reasonably affordable - I just want you to be aware of what you'll be dealing with if you really want to bring out their best.

If you're interested in seeing some of the crossover designs I'm referring to let me know. Also, if you haven't yet I highly recommend visiting www.zaphaudio.com and take a look at his driver comparisons and designs - a wealth of info there, whether you're looking at car or home speakers. Also, Madisound has several car (4 ohm) drivers and complete component systems that, although more costly than the Daytons, are in many cases still in the reasonable category.
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Old 29th November 2006, 03:51 AM   #5
lineup is offline lineup  Sweden
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Quote:
Originally posted by sdclc126

If you're interested in seeing some of the crossover designs I'm referring to let me know.
Also, if you haven't yet I highly recommend visiting
www.zaphaudio.com
and take a look at his driver comparisons and designs

- a wealth of info there, whether you're looking at car or home speakers.

Also, Madisound has several car (4 ohm) drivers and complete component systems that, although more costly than the Daytons, are in many cases still in the reasonable category.
.
www.zaphaudio.com
new to me, but good website!

thanks, sdclc126
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Old 30th November 2006, 06:34 AM   #6
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WOW! Thank you for the responses. I agree it "looks" like a quality driver. The stationary phase plug is a feature usually found in high quality drivers. Thank you for the heads-up on crossover design complexities. I am looking for an active X-over for the system. I am thinking of finding one with steep slopes 3rd order or more. With what you said about the higher end response of metal drivers being erratic I think this may be an easy solution. Also a steeper slope will allow me to choose a lower point on the tweeter which will help to raise the center image. Oh and thank you for http://www.zaphaudio.com/smalltest/. It looks like a very good site that I need to study further.
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Old 3rd December 2006, 08:59 PM   #7
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Hey it must be a good tweeter, if BOB CARVER is using it. I really like it. I wonder what he is charging for this system.

http://www.sunfire.com/CR.htm


I also wonder what mids he is using it is hard to tell from the picture.

I have four MARTIN LOGAN Ticket in walls that I currently have for sale but maybe I can use the mids (multiple 3.5") and a 6.5" for midbass a 3-way system instead of using a 6" alone.... Any thoughts? I can't find any specs on the mids I have no-Idea what the model # is so I cannot design an enclosure properly.
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