pure midrange W18E or PR170MO on open baffle?

[thadman]

Im looking for a pure midrange to cover 300hz --> (whatever sounds best mated with the tweeter)

The midrange driver will be placed upon a 24" open baffle and will be crossed to either a Dayton 12" HF or Eminence Alpha 15A on the lowend @ 300hz w/ 48dB crossovers and it will also be crossed to a Peerless HDS 1" tweeter on the top end.

an Ascendant Audio Avalanche 18" in a LLT will cover everything up to 60/80hz

I've got a Behringer DCX2496 for equalization and crossovers and am highly considering a Rane MA6 (6x100@8) for amplification.

Which mid (PR170MO or W18E) will cover 300 cycles on up the best?

I've done a lot of research on both drivers, but have found no objective measurements on the PR170MO or comparison between the two drivers. Is it simply a highly efficient driver that sounds *good*, or does it compare directly with the Seas Excel and sound *excellent*?

I listen to a lot of metal (nin, dream theater, tool, etc)

[Daveis]

Maybe?

Seas MCA15
Dayton RS52
SS 18W8531G

Let me know directly which you decide upon as I am looking for the ultimate mid from 800hz up.

[joe carrow]

The really nice thing about an active crossover open baffle speaker system is that you're free to experiment. It's obvious that you're looking for high SPL, with that monster sub and a 12" to fill in under the midrange. I don't think you should use anything smaller than a 6.5" cone, unless you go for the MTM arrangement with a pair of 5" drivers.

I suppose you've already read the driver test pages at Zaphaudio.com - there are a few major contenders there.

http://zaphaudio.com/6.5test/

Another page with a lot of relevant tests is here:

http://www.markk.claub.net/index.html

I guess it really depends on your budget. I'm using the Dayton RS180 and I'm extremely happy with it. It cost me $25 on sale. If you have deep pockets and you're looking for the "best", you have to take a close look at Scan Speak's offerings- which can cost over $200.

On another note; I once built a speaker with an Eminence Beta 8 driver, one from pro audio. I didn't have any measurement capability, but it sounded like it had very low distortion. All of my friends agreed that the speakers had a very "clear" sound, and they sounded very "live". It sounded really really good with guitars and bands like Tool. In retrospect, I do believe that the paper cone was adding some coloration to the sound- but I don't think that it was a bad thing. When you go to a Tool concert, the sound ultimately does come out of drivers with paper cones. They impart some distortion on the sound, and that's part of the concert experience.

I've heard rock music on some speakers with extremely low distortion, and it sounded kind of disembodied. Considering your musical tastes and apparent enjoyment of louder listening, I'd recommend giving the PR170MO a try. Just be careful when you mount it, use some washers, and don't solder to the terminals. If you don't like them, you'll (hopefully) be able to resell them at a value near your purchase price.

[thadman]

I've considered every driver available and have done what I considered exhaustive research I have looked at Zaphs measurements and they have been extremely helpful, although they do not have measurements of the drivers I have been considering.

Peerless Exclusive 7
Seas Excel W18E
Audax PR170MO

I've read up on the Exclusives and they sound like an absolutely, phenomenal low distortion driver and was seriously considering using them until I got offered a trade. I was offered a pair of brand new W18Es for my Peerless XLS 8s, and I just cant turn down that offer.

That leaves my other choice, the Audax PR170MO. It lies right under my budget and is within grasp. The scanspeak mids, while extremely nice, seem to measure extremely close distortion wise to the exclusives and I believe I would probably be satisfied with the exclusives. The SS are also way beyond my budget

I had done research on tweeters and within my budget ($150/pair) the Peerless HDS 1" seemed to be the best distortion wise under 2000hz and the Seas 27TBFCG seemed to be great above 3000hz with slightly better transient response, but worse distortion performance and with a painful 20dB 3rd harmonic peak at just under 9khz. The Peerless HDS 1" seemed to be the best choice for the W18Es, but now im not sure what tweeter would mate best with the Audax given its huge high frequency dominance over the W18E.

Are there any drivers better than the Peerless HDS 1" to mate with the PR170MO under 150/pair or around there?

Also, would an Eminence Alpha 15A be a good choice for midbass (300hz xover) and do the Audax/Seas justice or would the Dayton Reference HF 12" be a better choice? I've been looking for the best midbass within my budget (~$210/pair) and passband (60/70-300hz) and those both looked great, are there any other drivers I should consider? Im open to all options.

Thanks for everybodys help

[joe carrow]

Sorry, last night I typed a big response and lost it when I lost my connection with DIYaudio.com.

Bottom line- the W18 is the little brother of the mid used in Orion, and your application (wider baffle, higher crossover) is strongly supportive of the slightly smaller driver. Go for it!!!

For the woofer, I definitely recommend the RS12 over the Eminence Alpha. Hopefully I can say more about that (and other options) after work today.

[thadman]

How are the Fountek NeoCD2.0 tweeters?

[joe carrow]

As I'm sure you know (from Zaph's site- it was very controversial at the time), ribbon tweeters don't tend to be as low in distortion as good dome tweeters. They also don't tend to have the SPL capability, especially when crossed low.

Having said that, the CD2.0 are supposed to have better power handling than previous ribbons. The chief benefit of ribbons, as I understand it, is a wide horizontal dispersion. What that means is that it might sound better in your room, since diffuse reflections can lend a sense of space. Some might argue that this is similar to what Bose does. I'm ambivalent on the matter until I get the chance to do some more experimentation.

I don't really recommend a ribbon tweeter with a metal cone mid. The metal demands a low crossover, and the ribbon demands a high one. They're kind of at odds.

[thadman]

What midbass would you recommend?

Could I reach xmax with a Peerless SLS 12 at 70hz in open baffle?

Im really quite clueless on what midbass to use (I dont want to spend more than 300/pair shipped) and it only needs to cover 70-300hz with distortion levels matching the Audax or Seas

[Daveis]

70 to 300 hz sounds more like bass driver than midbass.

Maybe Seas W21 or Scanspeak 8545.

[thadman]

I would love to use those drivers, but sadly they are out of my budget and dont seem to offer the displacement necessary for dipole use.