crossover for Hivi K1 and TB w4?!

skogs · 23rd November 2006, 04:26 PM

Hi, i have now read ALOT on crossovers and read about everything i could find out about the Hivi K1 tweeter and tangband W4-657SC. I made a simple 2nd order butterworth XO at 3000hz, including an attenuation circuit for the tweeter. the problem is that it's way to much treble, and its too weak in the mid. when playing with just the w4 connected the tone plays way up in the treble range. i can easily hear the tone (when using NCH tone generator) at frequencies up to 8-10khz!! is this normal? i'll guess this is why the treble is so dominating..?

is there anyone here with experience on these two drivers? who can help me out?

I use the two drivers in a 2-way system, closed 2litre box. it's going to be used with a small subwoofer.

Thanks in advance

sreten · 24th November 2006, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by skogs
I made a simple 2nd order butterworth XO at 3000hz, including an attenuation circuit for the tweeter. the problem is that it's way to much treble, and its too weak in the mid. when playing with just the w4 connected the tone plays way up in the treble range. i can easily hear the tone (when using NCH tone generator) at frequencies up to 8-10khz!! is this normal? i'll guess this is why the treble is so dominating..?

is there anyone here with experience on these two drivers? who can help me out?

I use the two drivers in a 2-way system, closed 2litre box. it's going to be used with a small subwoofer.

Thanks in advance

Hi, presumably "cookbook" crossovers and completely wrong.

Your problem is likely wrong c/o values and
not accounting for baffle step compensation.

/sreten.

skogs · 24th November 2006, 12:25 PM

yes i'lk guess that whats wrong. (allthough it seemed like something was completely wrong, like f.eks the Tb played fullrange or something. it lacked ALOT of low and mid frequencies, and it's supposed to play flat down to at least beneath 150hz. the treble was really dominating!)
sounded like there was not only someting wrong in between 2-4khz (XO at 3khz), but also everything beneath it.

I have used an attenuation filter, so the tweeter should have the same sensitivity as the woofer.

sreten · 24th November 2006, 01:02 PM

Hi,

After BSC the tweeter should have 4dB to 6dB less output than
the nominal midrange sensitivity of the bass / midrange driver.

Cookbook crossovers tend to assume the drivers are resistive,

http://www.zaphaudio.com/tweetermishmash/fr.html

not too hideous an assumption for the tweeter, but completely
wrong for the mid/bass unit dure to its (lossy) inductance.
This is compounded by the lack of BSC that should be applied
to the bass mid driver.

Read this thread, it may be useful :

3way XO help greatly appreciated!

/sreten.

skogs · 24th November 2006, 02:27 PM

what is BSC?

would you recommend me to use a zobel on the woofer?

sreten · 24th November 2006, 05:23 PM

Hi,

baffle step compensation, a zobel is a lazy way of assuming correctness, generally not needed.

/sreten.

skogs · 26th November 2006, 01:34 PM

okay, thank you

but could someone please calculate the baffle step compensation for me? i do not have a clue how it's done! after what i've read different places, i think a 3rd order butterworth would do fine. and cross over at around 3khz.

http://www.swanspeaker.com/product/htm/view.asp?id=30
http://www.tb-speaker.com/detail/1208_03/w4-657sc.htm

the baffle will be about 24 x 24cm. tweeter in the upper right corner, and mid in the lower left corner.

it would be very very helpful!!

Salas · 26th November 2006, 09:48 PM

I have used that unit in this speaker and maybe you can just double the inductance and half the capacitance of my low pass part of the filter for one unit (8 Ohm). Its for 2kHz -6dB and the BSC involved is just right for a stereo pair in room. If you keep the baffle width the same its gonna be nearly spot on.

skogs · 27th November 2006, 12:57 PM

a really nice person on pesupport.com designed a crossover for me

but how much can the values on the inductors differ from the calculated ones? If i want it accurate i have to pay more than twice than if i can use inductors with +\- .3uF

L1: 3.75 - 3.9 polypropylen
L2: 6.5 - 4.7 + 2.2 = 6.9
L3: 7 - 6.8

can this work just fine or should i go for the expensive solution?

sreten · 27th November 2006, 01:56 PM

Hi, show us the crossover.......... ,

/sreten.

23rd November 2006, 04:26 PM	#1
skogs diyAudio Member Join Date: Oct 2006	crossover for Hivi K1 and TB w4?! Hi, i have now read ALOT on crossovers and read about everything i could find out about the Hivi K1 tweeter and tangband W4-657SC. I made a simple 2nd order butterworth XO at 3000hz, including an attenuation circuit for the tweeter. the problem is that it's way to much treble, and its too weak in the mid. when playing with just the w4 connected the tone plays way up in the treble range. i can easily hear the tone (when using NCH tone generator) at frequencies up to 8-10khz!! is this normal? i'll guess this is why the treble is so dominating..? is there anyone here with experience on these two drivers? who can help me out? I use the two drivers in a 2-way system, closed 2litre box. it's going to be used with a small subwoofer. Thanks in advance

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
HiVi B3S (UK, EU)	jimbo1968	Swap Meet	9	17th May 2007 03:31 PM
HiVi M5N or M4N	guru_jeff	Multi-Way	0	8th October 2006 05:45 AM
Hivi Q1R	Phlim	Multi-Way	2	21st July 2006 08:49 PM
zaphaudio hivi b3s crossover question...	jaygeorge1979	Multi-Way	23	26th January 2006 08:39 AM
Hivi Dmb-a	ypasco	Multi-Way	0	18th November 2005 06:54 PM

New To Site?	Need Help?
Register to Participate Search Privacy Statement Contact Us	Frequently Asked Questions Did you forget your password? Mark Forums Read


	Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you. Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving

24th November 2006, 12:25 PM	#3
skogs diyAudio Member Join Date: Oct 2006	yes i'lk guess that whats wrong. (allthough it seemed like something was completely wrong, like f.eks the Tb played fullrange or something. it lacked ALOT of low and mid frequencies, and it's supposed to play flat down to at least beneath 150hz. the treble was really dominating!) sounded like there was not only someting wrong in between 2-4khz (XO at 3khz), but also everything beneath it. I have used an attenuation filter, so the tweeter should have the same sensitivity as the woofer.

24th November 2006, 01:02 PM	#4
sreten diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Brighton UK	Hi, After BSC the tweeter should have 4dB to 6dB less output than the nominal midrange sensitivity of the bass / midrange driver. Cookbook crossovers tend to assume the drivers are resistive, http://www.zaphaudio.com/tweetermishmash/fr.html not too hideous an assumption for the tweeter, but completely wrong for the mid/bass unit dure to its (lossy) inductance. This is compounded by the lack of BSC that should be applied to the bass mid driver. Read this thread, it may be useful : 3way XO help greatly appreciated! /sreten.

24th November 2006, 02:27 PM	#5
skogs diyAudio Member Join Date: Oct 2006	what is BSC? would you recommend me to use a zobel on the woofer?

24th November 2006, 05:23 PM	#6
sreten diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Brighton UK	Hi, baffle step compensation, a zobel is a lazy way of assuming correctness, generally not needed. /sreten.

26th November 2006, 01:34 PM	#7
skogs diyAudio Member Join Date: Oct 2006	okay, thank you but could someone please calculate the baffle step compensation for me? i do not have a clue how it's done! after what i've read different places, i think a 3rd order butterworth would do fine. and cross over at around 3khz. http://www.swanspeaker.com/product/htm/view.asp?id=30 http://www.tb-speaker.com/detail/1208_03/w4-657sc.htm the baffle will be about 24 x 24cm. tweeter in the upper right corner, and mid in the lower left corner. it would be very very helpful!!

26th November 2006, 09:48 PM	#8
Salas diyAudio Chief Moderator Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Athens-Greece	I have used that unit in this speaker and maybe you can just double the inductance and half the capacitance of my low pass part of the filter for one unit (8 Ohm). Its for 2kHz -6dB and the BSC involved is just right for a stereo pair in room. If you keep the baffle width the same its gonna be nearly spot on.

27th November 2006, 12:57 PM	#9
skogs diyAudio Member Join Date: Oct 2006	a really nice person on pesupport.com designed a crossover for me but how much can the values on the inductors differ from the calculated ones? If i want it accurate i have to pay more than twice than if i can use inductors with +\- .3uF L1: 3.75 - 3.9 polypropylen L2: 6.5 - 4.7 + 2.2 = 6.9 L3: 7 - 6.8 can this work just fine or should i go for the expensive solution?

27th November 2006, 01:56 PM	#10
sreten diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Brighton UK	Hi, show us the crossover.......... , /sreten.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)