Opinions on this B&C design.

Paul Dimaline · 21st November 2006, 07:09 PM

I have found this design and realy quite fancy having a go. Size wise they are acceptable, although I would like to extend the cabinet down to make them into a floorstander (void to sand fill or house X-Overs) and would make a curved front baffle and make the horn out off wood, similar in style to these but without the seperate horn unit.

B&C drivers seem very well regarded and are easily available in this country for affordable money (about £400 for the 4 units) and the looks have wife approval!

Anyone have any comments?

Cabinet plans and X-Over

Bass driver

HF unit

Paul.

Rademakers · 21st November 2006, 10:11 PM

For what would you use these exactly?

Wkr Johan

FrankWW · 22nd November 2006, 01:33 AM

Neat. B&C's own recipe is probably pretty good.

Earl Geddes, who is really a speaker guru,

( http://www.gedlee.com/ )

uses B&C drivers.

I suspect he would advise you to radius the edges and the corners of the cabinet and also around the bass driver and horn to minimize refraction. He likes big radii - at least 2" - given you want to curve the front of the cabinet anyway, aren't you looking at a baffle that would accomodate some radiusing?

His thinking, as expressed before he stopped writing to online discussion groups, is that minimizing refraction would give less psycho-acoustically bothersome distortion at high listening levels. I tried it with the top part of my Klipsch horn klones and it did make a nice difference. And, heaven knows, you certainly will be able to produce big dBs.

What kind of waveguide/horn did you have in mind? The HF unit you have in mind is a really modern unit and waveguide design really has moved on since Voice of the Theatre, great speaker though it is.

Paul Dimaline · 22nd November 2006, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rademakers
For what would you use these exactly?

Wkr Johan

Johan, just for domestic use. After trying out valves for the first time last year I quite fancy another tube amp...possibly a 300B, so the high sensitivity would be handy.

Quote:

Originally posted by FrankWW

I suspect he would advise you to radius the edges and the corners of the cabinet and also around the bass driver and horn to minimize refraction. He likes big radii - at least 2" - given you want to curve the front of the cabinet anyway, aren't you looking at a baffle that would accomodate some radiusing?

What kind of waveguide/horn did you have in mind? The HF unit you have in mind is a really modern unit and waveguide design really has moved on since Voice of the Theatre, great speaker though it is.

Frank, some nice big rads on the front baffle would be no problem.

As for the horn, B&C make one that they use for this design, here . If B&C cant/wont let me have the dimentions then I will just buy one and copy the shape to wood.

Paul.

FrankWW · 24th November 2006, 03:58 AM

Paul, sorry I didn't answer sooner

Quote:

If B&C cant/wont let me have the dimentions then I will just buy one and copy the shape to wood.

So you can use the B&C crossover design?

Rademakers · 24th November 2006, 08:04 PM

Are you using a subwoofer or EQ? As these aren't going to do much below 50-60 Hz. The 12" will become more and more directional between ~1 kHz and crossoverpoint with 1".
Personally I would rather use a (8")10"/1" or 12"/6"/1" at home. Am using 12"/1" only for HT (but your choice is definatly a step up on the quality ladder).

If directionalty isn't a problem you could consider a coaxial. B&C does have a nice 8"/1" IIRC.

Wkr Johan

Paul Dimaline · 25th November 2006, 07:08 PM

Guys, thanks for the feedback, much appreciated

I wont be using any eq. or a sub so the speaker will have to do its own work in the bass. They are going to be used quite close to a rear wall (not at particularly high volumes) so I was hoping that the in room response would be acceptable.
I have had a play with WINisd with regard to tuning but with little success.....perhaps this driver would be a little better.....it seems so from the plot although its not a huge differance.

I have also come across this Fane design that has a lower (quoted) bass responce so I am confident I can get the results I want from a 12"/horn tweeter design.

There is of course the BMS compresion mid/tweeter that go's down well into the midrange but I have no idea how much these things cost.

Paul.

FrankWW · 26th November 2006, 08:08 AM

Hi Paul,

I think you're best off sticking with the 12PLB76; it will match nicely with the HF driver/horn both with respect to the crossover and dispersion.

If after you play them for a while and think you want more bass, then stash a little subwoofer somewhere out of sight.

Paul Dimaline · 26th November 2006, 04:50 PM

Cheers Frank, I'll build it as per the B&C plans and take it from there

Paul.

Brett · 29th November 2006, 01:41 AM

Not bad. I'd use a different horn and HF driver myself though.

21st November 2006, 07:09 PM	#1
Paul Dimaline diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Lincolnshire, UK	Opinions on this B&C design. I have found this design and realy quite fancy having a go. Size wise they are acceptable, although I would like to extend the cabinet down to make them into a floorstander (void to sand fill or house X-Overs) and would make a curved front baffle and make the horn out off wood, similar in style to these but without the seperate horn unit. B&C drivers seem very well regarded and are easily available in this country for affordable money (about £400 for the 4 units) and the looks have wife approval! Anyone have any comments? Cabinet plans and X-Over Bass driver HF unit Paul.

21st November 2006, 10:11 PM	#2
Rademakers diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Rotterdam, NL	For what would you use these exactly? Wkr Johan __________________ Impossibilities we do immediatly, miracles take slightly longer.

24th November 2006, 08:04 PM	#6
Rademakers diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Rotterdam, NL	Are you using a subwoofer or EQ? As these aren't going to do much below 50-60 Hz. The 12" will become more and more directional between ~1 kHz and crossoverpoint with 1". Personally I would rather use a (8")10"/1" or 12"/6"/1" at home. Am using 12"/1" only for HT (but your choice is definatly a step up on the quality ladder). If directionalty isn't a problem you could consider a coaxial. B&C does have a nice 8"/1" IIRC. Wkr Johan __________________ Impossibilities we do immediatly, miracles take slightly longer.

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22nd November 2006, 01:33 AM	#3
FrankWW diyAudio Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: n/a	Neat. B&C's own recipe is probably pretty good. Earl Geddes, who is really a speaker guru, ( http://www.gedlee.com/ ) uses B&C drivers. I suspect he would advise you to radius the edges and the corners of the cabinet and also around the bass driver and horn to minimize refraction. He likes big radii - at least 2" - given you want to curve the front of the cabinet anyway, aren't you looking at a baffle that would accomodate some radiusing? His thinking, as expressed before he stopped writing to online discussion groups, is that minimizing refraction would give less psycho-acoustically bothersome distortion at high listening levels. I tried it with the top part of my Klipsch horn klones and it did make a nice difference. And, heaven knows, you certainly will be able to produce big dBs. What kind of waveguide/horn did you have in mind? The HF unit you have in mind is a really modern unit and waveguide design really has moved on since Voice of the Theatre, great speaker though it is.

25th November 2006, 07:08 PM	#7
Paul Dimaline diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Lincolnshire, UK	Guys, thanks for the feedback, much appreciated I wont be using any eq. or a sub so the speaker will have to do its own work in the bass. They are going to be used quite close to a rear wall (not at particularly high volumes) so I was hoping that the in room response would be acceptable. I have had a play with WINisd with regard to tuning but with little success.....perhaps this driver would be a little better.....it seems so from the plot although its not a huge differance. I have also come across this Fane design that has a lower (quoted) bass responce so I am confident I can get the results I want from a 12"/horn tweeter design. There is of course the BMS compresion mid/tweeter that go's down well into the midrange but I have no idea how much these things cost. Paul.

26th November 2006, 08:08 AM	#8
FrankWW diyAudio Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: n/a	Hi Paul, I think you're best off sticking with the 12PLB76; it will match nicely with the HF driver/horn both with respect to the crossover and dispersion. If after you play them for a while and think you want more bass, then stash a little subwoofer somewhere out of sight.

26th November 2006, 04:50 PM	#9
Paul Dimaline diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Lincolnshire, UK	Cheers Frank, I'll build it as per the B&C plans and take it from there Paul.

29th November 2006, 01:41 AM	#10
Brett diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2002	Not bad. I'd use a different horn and HF driver myself though.

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