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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 22nd February 2008, 12:02 PM   #21
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Default costs

Ok.. that's about what I thought.

Cost for the Denon 3808 was $1190.00 shipped, and I get 7 x 140 watts of pretty good amplification, along with really crappy remote controls (I think non-engineering types need to devise user interfaces, sigh ), more options than a chinese take out menu, minimization of WAF frustration using the whole setup, etc. etc.

So I've got probably 3 more weekends just figuring out how to setup 3 zone multi-house listening with 7.1 channel surround, multi-eq'd, internet radio, software upgrades via DNS, etc. etc.

That should keep me busy...

John L.
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Old 22nd February 2008, 01:11 PM   #22
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Default Re: $$$?

Quote:
Originally posted by auplater
[B]

And how much moola is involved in this quest for nirvana?

Looks like an interesting project... don't have time to do this.
I guess another question is how much time and money do you have in your speakers? How much in the crossovers(acourate can do the crossovers too). But I agree when time and/or money is an issue then its diverted to the area's you think provide the most worthwhile gains. In that case the Audyssey is likely better than nothing in an average room.
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Old 22nd February 2008, 01:17 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by m0tion
Acourate is ~$500 (ridiculous if you ask me)
"Ya pay bananas, you get monkeys".

Its all relative but $500 isn't a whole lot for its capabilities. Its easy to pay 6 times that for the DEQX and still be left wanting.

I think because its software its easy to assume that your $500 has bought you nothing of physical worth. After all we're happy to put down $500, without thinking, on drivers and some would even spend that on expensive passive crossover components.

When you buy Acourate you have a program that generates linear phase or min phase crossover transfer functions, linearises driver native amplitude/phase performance and provides true acoustic slopes, time aligns and also does room correction with psychoacoustic adaptations.

Uli(creator of Acourate) provides support and updates to the program that are well beyond the norm. How many developers would specifically engineer a tool or feature into their software because of a single user request? Then add in the initial and ongoing development time and last but not least, the performance of the filters the program generates.

I have no problem with handing over $500 for all that. The value is high IMO.
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Old 22nd February 2008, 03:49 PM   #24
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Its a nive giveaway that comes for free after all. Having a denon receiver myself i can support auplaters statement that it does do... something. However if your room is really bad dont expect the built in system to do magics. If you got a reverb which is really bad and whatnot... *btw i am glaring at my wifeys glass table and cupboards right now* well then...

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Old 22nd February 2008, 05:35 PM   #25
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Quote:
or better yet physical treatments
Speaking of, I know you were looking into DIY room treatment. Any progress?
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Old 22nd February 2008, 06:37 PM   #26
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Default Re: Re: $$$?

Quote:
Originally posted by ShinOBIWAN


I guess another question is how much time and money do you have in your speakers? How much in the crossovers(acourate can do the crossovers too). But I agree when time and/or money is an issue then its diverted to the area's you think provide the most worthwhile gains. In that case the Audyssey is likely better than nothing in an average room.

maybe $850 each(including xover) for the dipoles and $150 each for the 2 12" sonosubs; probably 20 hrs. each building each dipole (mostly woodworking, built from solid cherry rough boards) and 2 hrs. each on the sonosubs. However, I'd have built them with or without room eq.

Don't get me wrong, if I had time (I have plenty of $$$) I'd play around with higher power room eq., don't doubt in the least that there are more powerful solutions out there.

John L.
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Old 23rd February 2008, 01:59 AM   #27
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This looks like something else:

http://www.trinnov.com/product_Optimizer.php

The 3 dimensional deconvolution sound interesting but I'd imagine it to be fraught with potential problems. The interaction between the wave fronts propagating throughout the room, after they've left the drivers, would have to be thoroughly mapped. I assume the unit uses purely math based predication models to calculate when to fire the inverse cancellation signals from the loudspeaker drivers in order to cancel the secondary reflection that's already travelling through the room. If the timing's off for the cancellation signal then you might hear that as a very very shortly spaced echo effect or equally worse - some cancellation of direct sound.

There's a slimmed down version that will make its way into AV receivers too.

I'd love to hear it in action though. The price for the full fat version isn't to be found easily and the fact its marketed towards studios and such like makes me think its mid four figures plus.
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Old 23rd February 2008, 07:54 AM   #28
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The pro version Trinnov is $13K.

The latest ETA for the Sherwood R-972 receiver which will have it is May; $1800 MSRP.

The fact that it measures the 3D soundfield by using a 4-mike array would seem to give it a lot of potential.

What makes it much more desirable than Audyssey, presuming its general performance lives up to the advance press, is that it has multiple memories to store setups for different listening positions, and has several user selectable target curves.

A neat trick of particular interest to me is that it can rotate the entire soundstage (make the side speakers the fronts etc); I have audio and video in the same room but on adjacent walls.
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Old 23rd February 2008, 08:23 PM   #29
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Default idle speculation

Seems to be alot of speculation about what "does or does not" sound good wrt room comp. and personal experience here.

Since the entire listening experience relies on more than just the compensating algorithmn... (i.e., the filters, delays, all the dsp)
that is, type of speaker(s) used, room characteristics, audio source, it's not inconceivable that minimal dsp (aka audyssey, etc.) might be all that's needed for an optimal setup.

hence, I don't necessarily buy the argument of "if you think [fill in your favorite dsp] is great, "things can only get better if you use [something better]".

Be interesting to hear some more real live listening experiences as well as the "expert" opinion about what should or should not occur (and be heard), especially comparison studies.

John L.
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Old 23rd February 2008, 08:29 PM   #30
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Shin:

Curious, what convolution engine do you use? Convolver?
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