Poor Man's Strad

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grantnsw

Member
Joined 2006
Hi Sreten, my friend!
Thanks again. I don't know why Troels hasn't published more details? Yes, no doubt you will see my post in the 3WayXO help....thread. I'm sorry I made a 'klutz' of myself, by not properly reading your reply.
Ok...., you got me 'in', lol! Not that I want to particularly rebuild the cabinets, but what are you suggesting? Just for fun! cheers, grant
 
S

sreten

R.I.P.
Joined 2003
Hi Mark,

Having looked at your original post I'm not too sure the PMS is a good
choice for your very small room unless its is a dedicated listening room.

The PMS would give a sort of nearfield sound in small spaces, not what
I would call a farfield experience / perspective, which is good for when
music is more to relax to rather than listen to.

Its a bit like a 32" looks like a 42" screen if you sit nearer, but near a 42" ?

Either way I would not particularly recommend a 3-way for such a small room.

Placement is an issue - near walls ? or would you pull them out somewhat ?

There are not many designs specifically suited to small rooms.

I'd be tempted to build a version of this :

http://www.zaphaudio.com/audio-speaker12.html

Possibly a not too tall but angled back floorstander with the same
baffle width and layout at the top but less cabinet depth and an
angled section in the bottom to fill with mass damping.
I'd tune it lower for your room - around 40Hz.

Would work very well unless you are a volume freak.

:)/sreten.
 
M

mlammert

Member
Joined 2005
Hey Sreten,

Thanks for the advice... This is a smaller room... Don't know the dimensions off the top of my head but would guess at 10W 15L 8H...

Yes, for the most part this will be a dedicated listening room...

Eventually, I will move these to a larger room once we finish our basement...

Mark
 
M

mlammert

Member
Joined 2005
From reading Troels comments on his web site, I would have assumed it was made for small rooms since he nick named it, "comes with a room"...

Is it the PMS in particular that is bad for small rooms or is it the 3-way in general???

So you think a 2-way may be more inline for that room??? Any projects in particular???

If I really wanted to go with a 3-way (I am not a volume freak - but I do like bass) what projects would you recommend???

Thanks,
Mark
 
M

mlammert

Member
Joined 2005
S

sreten

R.I.P.
Joined 2003
mlammert said:
Thanks again for the advice, sreten...

I have actually been thinking of doing something similar to these:

http://www.bamberglab.com/s5mtm.shtml

But using maybe these for the MTM:

http://www.speakerbuilder.net/web_files/Projects/D3/dayton3.htm
or
http://www.speakerbuilder.net/web_files/Projects/Eros Project/eros.htm

And, then building my own subs...

Any recommendations on other good MTM???

Mark
Click to expand...

Hi,

Personally no fan of MTM's, especially for small rooms.

But if you fancy a look-u-like of :

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.


Look no further than :

http://www.zaphaudio.com/BAMTM.html

or

http://www.zaphaudio.com/audio-speaker16.html


And add a 10" sub and flared port to suit.

Note if your not using a AV amplifier the active
bass roll-off of the top can be problematic.

Personally I think the best bet for your small room is a TL line
tuned to around 33Hz - well below lowest room mode of 47Hz.
this equates to single folded TL around 1m tall.

Similar to this :

http://seas.no/kit/Thor cab.pdf

And use preferably :

http://www.zaphaudio.com/audio-speaker12.html

or (may be a bit too much for the room)

http://www.zaphaudio.com/audio-speaker17.html

as the fitted mid/bass+tweeter+c/o systems.

:)/sreten.
 
M

mlammert

Member
Joined 2005
Hey Sreten,

Once again, wow, thanks for all the advice...

So, don't take this question the wrong way, I am just asking so that I can have a better understanding and learning:

You seem very taken by the Zaph designs, why???

I am jus trying to understand what concepts and components make one speaker better than another...

If I go with the MTM and sub(s), yes, I would either go through an AV receiver or get an active bass management module...

When you talk about the TL and then the two Zaph speakers at the end of your previous message, are you suggesting that I take the drivers and crossovers of the Zaph speakers and put them into a TL style box???

If that is the case, how would I match up the drivers/crossovers with the TL style box??? Wouldn't the crossovers have to be modified???

Thanks again, this has all been a great learning experience...

Mark
 
S

sreten

R.I.P.
Joined 2003
mlammert said:
Hey Sreten,

Once again, wow, thanks for all the advice...
So, don't take this question the wrong way, I am just asking
so that I can have a better understanding and learning:
You seem very taken by the Zaph designs, why???


Because he knows what he is doing, it is well documented
and his main admirable concern is performance for the price.
He doesn't pick two drivers because he thinks they might
be good, he knows they are good, and he uses them well.
Nothing is more complicated than it needs to be.

but also see :

http://www.rjbaudio.com/projects.html
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Diy_Loudspeaker_Projects.htm
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/



I am jus trying to understand what concepts and c
omponents make one speaker better than another...

If I go with the MTM and sub(s), yes, I would either go through
an AV receiver or get an active bass management module...


I read your original mail and trust me midrange performance will be
far more important to you than party level volume with deep bass
capabilities and visually impressive behemoths.
Something like the L15 or L18 floorstanders, + a decent Marantz
amplifier (the Class A/AB switchable one ?) + decent Marant CD
player well set up in your small room would sound great. Bass
will be far better than you seem to imagine will be the case.


When you talk about the TL and then the two Zaph speakers at the end
of your previous message, are you suggesting that I take the drivers
and crossovers of the Zaph speakers and put them into a TL style box???

If that is the case, how would I match up the drivers/crossovers with
the TL style box??? Wouldn't the crossovers have to be modified???


Essentially if you keep baffle width and driver layout the same
the crossovers do not need redesigning, why Zaphs floorstanders
do not have different crossovers to the standmounters (or TLs).

I'd ask some of the kind people here who know MJK's worksheets
to help you with this, i'm no expert on TLs, TQWTs, BIBs etc


Thanks again, this has all been a great learning experience...

Mark
Click to expand...
 
C

castlesteve

Member
Joined 2003
PMS baffle.

I am also wondering about this. I would have started building a while ago if i didn`t have to build this curved front baffle. Should i make a flat baffle for the drivers to recess into and then angle the baffle away with an angled mitre? The back could then be made flat which would also make things easier. I have the drivers and will have the crossovers soon so i`m keen to get started on the cabinets.
Steve.
 
T

tinitus

Ex-Moderator R.I.P.
Joined 2005
If you round the transition/edges I suppose it wont be much different, but the question is which angle instead of a curve
If you make the same "thickness" and do angles instead of curves, you will get less volume

But your different room conditions and electronics might matter more
 
O

optichammer

Member
Joined 2005
PMS Curves Solution

Hello All,
I'd be happy to supply the curved bracing to those who are interested. Also templates for the same ,if you are an inititated woodworker. From there, it's staightforward kerfing and/or lamination to get the baffle where you want it. Regarding the sound, I believe there would have to be measurements taken to assess the difference between the smooth curve as opposed to the angled version on the site. It's really your call. I find the radius work is rather fundimental once you get your hands around it. To my eye, it's a finer execution.
 
C

castlesteve

Member
Joined 2003
PMS baffle.

I`d be interested in how you would make the templates. I just took the bull by the horns and experimented with some plywood on the table saw. I cut a kerf leaving about 1/8" every 1/4" and it bends beautifuly. I think sometimes you just have to have a go. I was unsure about my ability to build these but now i think it`s a go!
Steve.
 
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