So I have these cabinets, they're pretty well made with a nice oak verneer and some decent internal bracing. Here are the dimensions:
Tweeter face - 4 1/8"
Midrange face - 7 1/4" with a .62 cu/ft sealed cab
Woofer face - 7 1/4" with a 1 cu/ft vented cab, 3" port
My ideas are:
- Make a 3 way using a Tang Band W6-1139SG Neo Sub in the 1 cu/ft vented chamber crossed at around 300-400hz (http://www.partsexpress.com/pdf/264-832.pdf) to the Dayton RS-180 in the .62 cu/ft sealed chamber, and the RS28 tweeter. For this I would need help with a crossover design. But I bet those Neo subs would totally kick some butt
- Cut out the wall separating the two driver chambers to make a single 1.65 cu/ft vented enclosure and build a 2.5 way based on design here - http://www.rjbaudio.com/RS180MTM/rs180-rs28-mtm.html No extra work needed other than putting it together based on his crossover design.
- Keep the 2 chambers seperate, make a 2.5 way design with the Dayton RS180 in the vented chamber, Dayton Euro ES180 (or possibly Vifa XG18) in the sealed, and a Dayton RS28A tweet. I consider the Euro for a mid because it's less analytical and more forgiving of bad recordings. And use the RS180 in the vented chamber because it has more xmax.
I want plenty of bass, they'll be used in a fairly big room with no sub. Also want good detail, but needs to be forgiving enough to use with not-so-well recorded rock and metal music. So which of the above ideas would you try and why? Or maybe some other idea I haven't considered.
Here are some pictures of the cabinets - they're upside down
And a picture of the internal bracing I've added, as well as a thick coat of water putty to harden it up some more.
Tweeter face - 4 1/8"
Midrange face - 7 1/4" with a .62 cu/ft sealed cab
Woofer face - 7 1/4" with a 1 cu/ft vented cab, 3" port
My ideas are:
- Make a 3 way using a Tang Band W6-1139SG Neo Sub in the 1 cu/ft vented chamber crossed at around 300-400hz (http://www.partsexpress.com/pdf/264-832.pdf) to the Dayton RS-180 in the .62 cu/ft sealed chamber, and the RS28 tweeter. For this I would need help with a crossover design. But I bet those Neo subs would totally kick some butt
- Cut out the wall separating the two driver chambers to make a single 1.65 cu/ft vented enclosure and build a 2.5 way based on design here - http://www.rjbaudio.com/RS180MTM/rs180-rs28-mtm.html No extra work needed other than putting it together based on his crossover design.
- Keep the 2 chambers seperate, make a 2.5 way design with the Dayton RS180 in the vented chamber, Dayton Euro ES180 (or possibly Vifa XG18) in the sealed, and a Dayton RS28A tweet. I consider the Euro for a mid because it's less analytical and more forgiving of bad recordings. And use the RS180 in the vented chamber because it has more xmax.
I want plenty of bass, they'll be used in a fairly big room with no sub. Also want good detail, but needs to be forgiving enough to use with not-so-well recorded rock and metal music. So which of the above ideas would you try and why? Or maybe some other idea I haven't considered.
Here are some pictures of the cabinets - they're upside down
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
And a picture of the internal bracing I've added, as well as a thick coat of water putty to harden it up some more.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Nice cabinets
I would suggest a multi-amp design with the filter on each amp-input specifically tuned for each driver.
Amp idea's:
http://41hz.com/
Or to make it easier with a built and tested (or even encased) design:
http://www.autocostruire.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=42&osCsid=359962c5857704ff3fe2c2e631187655
Filter idea's:
http://www.t-linespeakers.org/tech/filters/passiveHLxo.html
http://www.marchandelec.com/xm46.html
http://www.marchandelec.com/ftp/xm46man.pdf
This way you can make the bass as impressive as you like....
Advantages are that the filter is a lot less expensive, this money can be used better for amplification, and for the price I can't think of a better amp than a class D of the latest kind ("class T")..
I've put my 30W class A amps in the storage and am pretty much in love with my 4 channel mc4x100 from audiodigit...
I would suggest a multi-amp design with the filter on each amp-input specifically tuned for each driver.
Amp idea's:
http://41hz.com/
Or to make it easier with a built and tested (or even encased) design:
http://www.autocostruire.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=42&osCsid=359962c5857704ff3fe2c2e631187655
Filter idea's:
http://www.t-linespeakers.org/tech/filters/passiveHLxo.html
http://www.marchandelec.com/xm46.html
http://www.marchandelec.com/ftp/xm46man.pdf
This way you can make the bass as impressive as you like....
Advantages are that the filter is a lot less expensive, this money can be used better for amplification, and for the price I can't think of a better amp than a class D of the latest kind ("class T")..
I've put my 30W class A amps in the storage and am pretty much in love with my 4 channel mc4x100 from audiodigit...
here's what I did with some very old cabinets: http://3dotaudio.com/waterputtyexperiment.html ...
They sound pretty good. The drivers still have to be broken in and the crossovers tweaked. (I'd love to take a whack at your's = too cool! )
They sound pretty good. The drivers still have to be broken in and the crossovers tweaked. (I'd love to take a whack at your's = too cool! )
I acutally got the speakers two days ago, found them on craigslist for $50. I brought them home and they work fine, but the cabinets were pretty scratched up. The pictures show cabinet 1 all sanded down and cabinet 2 in the background with the original drivers and finish still on it.
After I opened up the cabinet and made some measurements, I decided they're perfect for better drivers. Last night I stained and poly'd the first cabinet and it looks fantastic, so why not give it fantastic sound as well If it works out well, I'll probably base an entire home theater off the final design.
So far I've ruled out the Tang Band Neo sub ... sensitivity is just too low. What I'm leaning toward is a 2.5 way with undetermined drivers and keeping one chamber sealed, one vented.
After I opened up the cabinet and made some measurements, I decided they're perfect for better drivers. Last night I stained and poly'd the first cabinet and it looks fantastic, so why not give it fantastic sound as well
If it works out well, I'll probably base an entire home theater off the final design. So far I've ruled out the Tang Band Neo sub ... sensitivity is just too low. What I'm leaning toward is a 2.5 way with undetermined drivers and keeping one chamber sealed, one vented.
Today's progress
One cab finished and poly'd ... ready for drivers. Checkout the nifty trim rings, those will make fitting new drivers look totally clean if the overall diameter is slightly smaller.
I'm about to pull the trigger on a 2.5 way with Dayton RS180's and Seas 27TBFC/G, but am afraid it won't be very forgiving
Am also considering a 2.5 way with Vifa XT18's but problem there might be not enough bass. What to do, what to do?
One cab finished and poly'd ... ready for drivers. Checkout the nifty trim rings, those will make fitting new drivers look totally clean if the overall diameter is slightly smaller.
I'm about to pull the trigger on a 2.5 way with Dayton RS180's and Seas 27TBFC/G, but am afraid it won't be very forgiving
Am also considering a 2.5 way with Vifa XT18's but problem there might be not enough bass. What to do, what to do?
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Jim85IROC said:
Well, if I could get pair of ~150w plate amps cheap I would ... otherwise they essentially more than double the cost of the rebuild.
I am planning on bi-amping these speakers using 4 of the 5 channels of my Sherwood AM-9080 5x120 amp, but unfortunately it doesn't have separate gain controls for each channel ... or I could adjust volume that way.
" ... I acutally got the speakers two days ago, found them on craigslist for $50. ..."
Good score!! and it loks like you are doing right by them ... you must keep us all abreast of how the project turns out ... and more pics of progress, etc.
(Each driver's relative gain may be handled by the [active or passive] crossover nets ... maybe.)
Good score!! and it loks like you are doing right by them ... you must keep us all abreast of how the project turns out ... and more pics of progress, etc.
(Each driver's relative gain may be handled by the [active or passive] crossover nets ... maybe.)
Great amp that Sherwood!
You can make a two way filter for the mid and the tweeter, and filter the bottom octaves out of them on 1 pair of inputs of the Sherwood.
Filter everything above the bottom octaves for the subs on the other pair of inputs....( use the Sherwood as your "plate amp" that way...)
A really good functioning and relatively cheap and easy to build filter can be found in the links of my earlier post....
Especially the Marchand pdf link contains a very interesting design that can be copied, experimented with and learned from....
You can make a two way filter for the mid and the tweeter, and filter the bottom octaves out of them on 1 pair of inputs of the Sherwood.
Filter everything above the bottom octaves for the subs on the other pair of inputs....( use the Sherwood as your "plate amp" that way...)
A really good functioning and relatively cheap and easy to build filter can be found in the links of my earlier post....
Especially the Marchand pdf link contains a very interesting design that can be copied, experimented with and learned from....
Don't get me wrong v-bro, I'd love to go the route you suggest ... but they're just way too expensive. I'd need something like a pair of XM9's with attenuators, and you're talking $1000 for the full kits 
That's about 3x my planned driver budget = wouldn't make sense
If I could build what I need for about $200 - $300, I'd be all over it.
That's about 3x my planned driver budget = wouldn't make sense
If I could build what I need for about $200 - $300, I'd be all over it.
You could always use one amp and run a master/slave speaker. One of the 250 watt PE plate amps would be more than enough power, and although it's not super cheap, once you factor in the cost of the crossover parts (read: big inductor) that you'll need to cross the subs to the mid/woofers, the differential won't be that great.TurboFC3S said:
Xm-46 is also available as a kit, very easy build (only few components...) costing 65 USD per channel.
This type of filtering is between the pre- and power amp, only haveing to handle very little power. And can be DIY-ed much cheaper...
Look again at this pdf http://www.marchandelec.com/ftp/xm46man.pdfand realize the low values and small size the components are!
Coils:
Suitable coils only need very few windings and are very easy to make really cheap. Electronics shops in my neighborhood measure the value for me for free (I can wind them while measuring there....), maybe try some in yours...
Caps:
The caps are pretty cheap too, because their low value even the most exotic types are affordable.
Resistors:
First build one with few steps and cheap resistors (reasonably good ones..). Make one with better resistors after, and maybe more steps...
Level controls:
Can be made very "audiophile" and cheap/simple.
Just take an ohms meter and measure on a potentiometer a couple of values of desirable steps in volume. Buy a 2-deck (for series type) or better a 4-deck (for ladder type) switch (with say 5 or 6 steps) and solder a couple of equal valued resistors on them (match them well L/R...).
Or use a value diagram...
This is a very nice one...
http://www.diyfidelity.com.au/product_info.php?cPath=0_33&products_id=32
This one is cheap and easy to build:
http://www.platenspeler.com/background/attenuator/uk_attenuator_1.html
This is a cheap kit:
http://www.diyfidelity.com.au/product_info.php?cPath=0_33&products_id=32
I made a passive preamp with built in filter this way in a very small aluminium box (cut and folded some alu sheets after work, we have a pretty good toolshed there...)
This type of filtering is between the pre- and power amp, only haveing to handle very little power.
And can be DIY-ed much cheaper...Look again at this pdf http://www.marchandelec.com/ftp/xm46man.pdfand realize the low values and small size the components are!
Coils:
Suitable coils only need very few windings and are very easy to make really cheap. Electronics shops in my neighborhood measure the value for me for free (I can wind them while measuring there....), maybe try some in yours...
Caps:
The caps are pretty cheap too, because their low value even the most exotic types are affordable.
Resistors:
First build one with few steps and cheap resistors (reasonably good ones..). Make one with better resistors after, and maybe more steps...
Level controls:
Can be made very "audiophile" and cheap/simple.
Just take an ohms meter and measure on a potentiometer a couple of values of desirable steps in volume. Buy a 2-deck (for series type) or better a 4-deck (for ladder type) switch (with say 5 or 6 steps) and solder a couple of equal valued resistors on them (match them well L/R...).
Or use a value diagram...
This is a very nice one...
http://www.diyfidelity.com.au/product_info.php?cPath=0_33&products_id=32
This one is cheap and easy to build:
http://www.platenspeler.com/background/attenuator/uk_attenuator_1.html
This is a cheap kit:
http://www.diyfidelity.com.au/product_info.php?cPath=0_33&products_id=32
I made a passive preamp with built in filter this way in a very small aluminium box (cut and folded some alu sheets after work, we have a pretty good toolshed there...)
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