Thoughts on this Focal 2.5 way

[TurboFC3S]

Today started off on the phone with Zalytron. I was looking for suggestions on a kit to build with fantastic dynamics, detail, and enough bass to ditch the sub for music listening. I had my own ideas in mind, which were quickly shot down What they highly suggested was a kit based on a pair of Focal 7w4411's and the Audiom tweeter. I can't quite afford the Audiom but asked about the TC120TD5 - they spoke very very highly of it as well, and said the reports of harshness with it are completely unfounded. Zalytron said the 7w4411 has more bass than any 6.5" or 7" they'd heard, and an equal in 'musicality' for any other driver.

He had me call Alex at Focal, which I did. He had just finished his cabinet drawings (which I can post if somebody wants to see), and is just a couple days away from finishing the crossover design with a notch for the 2800hz node.

So I should have a killer design done for me. My questions are feedback from those who have used the 7w4411 and/or the TC120TD5. Is that the best I can do for the price?

[BobEllis]

The TC120 is a nice tweeter, I'm listening to it now with Focal 6W4254 woofers. I find them very smooth, the harshness reputation was probably due to the early Kevlar versions.

My system is actively crossed over at 2400 hz, 4th order LR with a notch at 4500 to take care of the main breakup mode.

I considered the 7W4411, but the breakup mode so close to the Tweeter's lower limit and the bobble in the FR/impedance curves just above 1000 indicates a cone mode. It might be audible, might not. It would probably be better to use it with a tweeter that can go lower.

The 6W4254 can be tuned just as low, but won't go as loud down low. Using it in an MTM or 2.5 way would solve some of that. Mine are in the bedroom, so maximum volume isn't much of an issue.

Focal has never been about value. their drivers sound good, but may not measure the best. Parts Express' Dayton RS Woofers are the value leaders for most applications. I have a pair of speakers using the RS150 and Seas 27TDFC. Using the same active crossover as the Focal system they are about equivalent in performance. The RS sounds a little different, but no better or worse. This is probably due to it really wanting a lower crossover point to tame its breakup modes.

See http://www.htguide.com/forum/forumdisplay.php4?f=39 for a series of designs mostly featuring the Dayton drivers. I'd bet the Modula MTM would be cleaner than the proposed Focal system, for around the cost of 4 x 7W4411. (Sorry Elliot, I still buy my Seas tweeters from you.)

[TurboFC3S]

I was hoping you'd reply Bob ... and I must say I'm a bit surprised! You think the Dayton RS180 can beat the 7w4411? I'm not surprised it could match the Focal in midrange detail and clarity up to mid volumes, but you think it can match the Focal in extension and volume?

[BobEllis]

The 7W441 has 30% more cone area, but the RS180 has 20% more xmax, so it's a tight race for extension and output. Both have about the same fs, Vas and Qts. The Focal has a stronger motor, but its sensitivity is only a dB or so higher.

All told, the 7W4411 probably has a slight edge on maximum output. The RS180 has a smoother passband response and probably lower distortion due to its more advanced motor.

Both would work nicely in a MLTL, although this gets big in a hurry.

I built a set of Nat Ps for a friend and they are very nice sounding. The Modulas should be a little cleaner, not that I had any complaints in that department. The MLTL configuration gives in room response to below 30 Hz at reasonably enthusiastic levels. They'll do without a sub until my friend has the money for that.

If starting from scratch, I'd rather have the $400 saved building an RS180 based MTM to spend on CDs than blow it on Focal bragging rights. I may have to see how low I can push the TC120, though.

[mdelrossi]

TurboFC3S,
I've been using 1 7W441 and a TC90tdx combo for a while and really like them.
I was planing on doing the titanio elite project on Zalytrons site.
If you could post your drawings I'd be appreciative.
thanks
mdr

[TurboFC3S]

Originally posted by mdelrossi
If you could post your drawings I'd be appreciative.

Here you go

http://www.rxtuner.com/submissions/P...11%20Tower.pdf

[mdelrossi]

Thank you. would you post the crossover when you get it.
thanks again
mdr

[tommy7]

HI, everyone, nice to see this thread. I love the sound of Focal drivers and have built a pair of Cobalt 807 clones using TC90TDXT and 7in Polyglass mid woofer ( forget driver # right now ) They are very detailed and refined sounding . I Got all the parts from someone who reversed engineered a pair, so the XO is the same as well.
I am now about to build a pair of MTM focals using the Audiom tweeter and 6W woof's I got from Zalytron. I'm thinking of having a pair of cabinets custom made out of solid granite. I have a friend who works with stone so I think I can get them done for around $500Can.
Anyone have any thoughts on this?
My only reservation is that once the face is machined for the TLR tweeter I'll never be able to sub for another one.

I like the sound of the TC90 but I've never heard either the TC120 or the TLR tweeter, I hope I like them.

[mdelrossi]

Always on the lookout for more info on focal drivers.
Do you have any pictures? or the schematic for the X.
thanks
mdr

[tommy7]

Which XO are you looking for ?