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Old 25th March 2013, 08:22 AM   #681
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These spekers will be used for party's so high output will be important. Covering 140 to 6Khz with a point source seem to be a good ideea. The Seleniums are reated at 75W and they can be crossed as low as 500hz. This gives more room to play, and a wider variety of drivers.
In the future i will try to use a 2"coaxial drivers . But they are not that cheap!
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Old 25th March 2013, 09:47 AM   #682
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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noone says you cant be creative
we havent yet seen the optimal hifi unity
btw, tweeter is not a compression driver, but a complete small tweeter horn, and could be the new FaitalPro FD371
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Old 25th March 2013, 11:31 AM   #683
JLH is offline JLH  United States
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Originally Posted by winslow View Post
Danley is now using 1.4" drivers on a lot of their horns now it seems.
I think the one they are using is the BMS 4554.

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Old 25th March 2013, 11:59 AM   #684
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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all else being equal, 1.4" got higher SPL and better power handling
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Old 25th March 2013, 04:56 PM   #685
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rvrazvan View Post
These spekers will be used for party's so high output will be important. Covering 140 to 6Khz with a point source seem to be a good ideea. The Seleniums are reated at 75W and they can be crossed as low as 500hz. This gives more room to play, and a wider variety of drivers.
In the future i will try to use a 2"coaxial drivers . But they are not that cheap!
Most of my most successful projects have been 'inspired' by existing designs. In the spirit of that, a couple of ideas you might try:

1) Copy the Sound Physics Labs Runt. Compression driver is BMS 4550, about $149. That's what William Cowan did, with an xover of 900hz: Suitable midrange cone, for bandpass mid in Unity horn.

There's enough info on the Runt online to make a successful copy. There's a thread on avsforum with pictures and measurements.

or...

2) Copy the VTC Paraline with the dual eights. The VTC Paraline *also* uses a BMS 4550, but there's a pair of them IIRC. (I'm not 100% sure on that comment; I believe some of the VTC boxes use a single compression driver on a Paraline.)



There are pluses and minuses to both approaches. The SPL Runt doesn't have directivity control as low as the VTC Paraline does. BUT the VTC Paraline is going to need DSP delay, due to the large distance between the midranges on the horn and the compression drivers. (There's something like 10" of horn length inside of the Paraline, and you need delay to compensate for that.)

If it were me, I'd probably go with the Paraline, and spend $99 on a minidsp to do the delay and xover duty. I prefer the Paraline mostly because the BMS compression driver doesn't have to work as hard on the Paraline because there are two of them. In the avsforum thread the owner of the SPL Runts complained that the high end was a bit harsh, and he'd EQ'd the top end to be down about 10-20dB to compensate. I've never found the BMS to be harsh, so my 'hunch' is that the use of an 8" midrange forced Danley to use a xover point that was lower than ideal for the compression driver. (900hz, according to Cowan.) And with such a low xover point, the compression driver is put through a lot of strain, and that strain exhibits itself as 'harshness' in the treble.


Or you could simply do what Art Welter did, and do the Paraline with large format compression drivers. You lose some top end, but the larger drivers will take a lot more abuse than the BMS 4550. In a prosound environment I doubt the audience will care if the last octave is AWOL
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Old 25th March 2013, 05:55 PM   #686
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Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
1) Copy the Sound Physics Labs Runt. Compression driver is BMS 4550, about $149.
or...
2) Copy the VTC Paraline with the dual eights. The VTC Paraline *also* uses a BMS 4550, but there's a pair of them IIRC. (I'm not 100% sure on that comment; I believe some of the VTC boxes use a single compression driver on a Paraline.)

I've never found the BMS to be harsh, so my 'hunch' is that the use of an 8" midrange forced Danley to use a xover point that was lower than ideal for the compression driver.

Or you could simply do what Art Welter did, and do the Paraline with large format compression drivers. You lose some top end, but the larger drivers will take a lot more abuse than the BMS 4550. In a prosound environment I doubt the audience will care if the last octave is AWOL
Danley designed the Yorkville TH sub, but not the top cabinets.
The Yorkville designed PSA1 uses four 8" front loaded drivers and two 1.75" diaphragm drivers, the VTC EL210 uses two 10" drivers in an offset horn (small speaker ports) and two HF drivers.
In both designs the placement of the Paraline exit is physically a bit over 1/4 wavelength from the LF driver exits or center to center distance, so off axis response in the crossover region is not optimal.

I use 8" and EV DH1AMT 3" diaphragm drivers, which avoids the problems around the acoustic crossover point.
Other than above 15K, the DH1A has more clean output potential than the pair of BMS 4550.

For home use I would not use the Paraline, the narrow vertical dispersion it affords is not required, and the sound quality of the Paraline is not as good as the usual Synergy/Unity style horn.

Using a 3" diaphragm driver in a Synergy style horn allows a lower crossover point and the use of 8" drivers, making a 3 way system (HF, MF, separate LF) viable for high volume use.
At the levels most listen at for home use, most 1" exit drivers could be crossed over to 6" or 8" cones and still sound fine and be safe.

Art
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Old 26th March 2013, 03:14 AM   #687
winslow is offline winslow  United States
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I think you are either over thinking this or don't understand these horns.


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Originally Posted by tinitus View Post
noone says you cant be creative
we havent yet seen the optimal hifi unity
btw, tweeter is not a compression driver, but a complete small tweeter horn, and could be the new FaitalPro FD371
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Old 26th March 2013, 10:16 AM   #688
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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Im only reflecting on a post where Danley said he wished his company would be interested in home audio

by that I take it he implies that the unity horn might change a bit if they were
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Old 26th March 2013, 01:08 PM   #689
bwaslo is offline bwaslo  United States
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I think what he'd change would mostly be the cosmetics. Something less industrial-looking.
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Old 26th March 2013, 01:47 PM   #690
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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well, they are very creative designers, so I think we could expect more than just a cosmetic makeover
not sure Danley is even interested in that really
sounded more like he would like to see what kind of thing his crew would create

but winslow is right
either I overthink it, or have no clew
I do that with life in general
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