Suitable midrange cone, for bandpass mid in Unity horn. - Page 67

Patrick Bateman · 26th February 2013, 07:30 PM

The new JBL M2 uses a unity-ish arrangement for frequency range of 800hz to 20khz. It appears that there are two ring radiators, operating face-to-face, and the output of the rings are horn loaded via a common channel.

Interesting stuff. This is the second time I've noticed JBL copping some Unity-type technology. (The first was the midranges in one of their array lines.)

I wonder how similar this JBL dual diaphragm ring radiator is to BMS's dual diaphragm ring radiator?

Some pics of the response, to give you an idea of it's performance.

Also, for lulz, here's a pic of my first horn speakers, which I bought based on a positive review in Stereophile, back when I was an audio noob. Second pic are my Summas. Third pic is the JBL M2. I'm seeing a family resemblance here

weltersys · 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman

[img]

The new JBL M2 uses a unity-ish arrangement for frequency range of 800hz to 20khz. It appears that there are two ring radiators, operating face-to-face, and the output of the rings are horn loaded via a common channel.

I wonder how similar this JBL dual diaphragm ring radiator is to BMS's dual diaphragm ring radiator?

Quite dissimilar, the BMS uses concentric annular diaphragms of different diameters covering different frequency ranges.
The JBL D2 (used in the M2 loudspeaker) doubles diaphragm area in a small diameter driver, a good feature when multiple drivers are used in a vertical arrangement (as in their small format line array speakers), or when a low crossover point with low distortion is required, as in the M2.
The BMS dual concentric could be thought of as "unity-ish", while the JBL D2 is just a far more elegant way of doing what was done with the old JBL 2329 "Y" throat adapter.

TMHutson · 27th February 2013, 02:35 AM

Woah, is that a pair of HLS 810? I found one at the swapmeet, and was mad when the couldn't find the other one. I wanted a pair, and they were CHEAP. I had purchased a pair at cost when I worked for a consumer retailer back in the day. Best sounding cheap speakers I have ever owned. I was leary at first as I didn't like low model Klipsch. But these were fun... (no bass, but I was ok with that at the time)
I am curious to see if anyone in america comes up with a synergy or unity build that uses decent drivers. I am still considering playing with unity (I will have a pair of CD's by end of summer to play with for econowaves, too)...

Patrick Bateman · 27th February 2013, 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMHutson

Woah, is that a pair of HLS 810? I found one at the swapmeet, and was mad when the couldn't find the other one. I wanted a pair, and they were CHEAP. I had purchased a pair at cost when I worked for a consumer retailer back in the day. Best sounding cheap speakers I have ever owned. I was leary at first as I didn't like low model Klipsch. But these were fun... (no bass, but I was ok with that at the time)
I am curious to see if anyone in america comes up with a synergy or unity build that uses decent drivers. I am still considering playing with unity (I will have a pair of CD's by end of summer to play with for econowaves, too)...

Yep, that's the one. Back in the 90s I was drinking the Stereophile kool-aid, and Corey Greenberg gave a positive mention to the JBLs. It seemed like the magazine would only recommend cheap speakers if they didn't have any bass, so the the HLS 810s were a welcome exception. To this day, they are the only speakers I've purchased twice. (Bought my first pair at Best Buy, sold them when I went DIY, then realized that my DIY design didn't sound any better. So I bought another set of the JBLs.)

bwaslo · 27th February 2013, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMHutson

Woah, is that a pair of HLS 810? I found one at the swapmeet, and was mad when the couldn't find the other one. I wanted a pair, and they were CHEAP. I had purchased a pair at cost when I worked for a consumer retailer back in the day. Best sounding cheap speakers I have ever owned. I was leary at first as I didn't like low model Klipsch. But these were fun... (no bass, but I was ok with that at the time)
I am curious to see if anyone in america comes up with a synergy or unity build that uses decent drivers. I am still considering playing with unity (I will have a pair of CD's by end of summer to play with for econowaves, too)...

Don't confuse expensive with decent. My Synergy build uses some buyout drivers but that's because I haven't found any non-buyout ones that would appear to work any better (or even as good).

Paul W · 28th February 2013, 10:11 PM

Also some similarity to an AMT. Are the upper and lower ducts to the center of the M2 offset/isolated from each other or are truly open/in parallel?

TMHutson · 1st March 2013, 03:38 AM

I was happy with the synergy design with the clarion drivers, but being the kit was designed in Australia with odd drivers made it impossible for me to get it at that time. I was thinking about trying the pyle mids with the unity horn design just for fun, after my wood working skills improve a bit. The pyle mids are easy to get... But the 2" clarion seemed to solve some issues... Oh well...
P.S... I worked for BB for almost a decade. That place satiated my home/audio car bug when i was younger as I got cost on stuff. Made it easier to play around with stuff... I could own it for a while, then sell it when I wanted to try something else. Hey, if it was not for us selling even basic JBL, I would not know what EOS stood for

Of all the years I worked for them, those were my favorite speakers by far... (I liked the advent laureattes as well).

I still want to make a unity or synergy horn... need to improve my wood working skills first.
I was bummed when the S3 horns were made with the orion mids. Too hard to get, especially for playing around. The pyle's look like they are cheap and easy to get still...

PaulSmith · 1st March 2013, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SunRa

I'v plugged-in the data you measured (thanks for publishing this) in John's Unity Midrange Spreadsheet and it's a bit off compared to the original midrange used in Unity.

Please post the results of your build, I'm curious of what you can get with this driver!

As this was asked about the Visaton M10 drivers way back in october and nobody seems to have added anything since (that I can see anyway) I thought I'd pop something on.

I picked up some unused Visaton M10 drivers off of the bay as they looked interesting and have just tried them out on a 90 x 55 horn that I built.
I haven't done anything special with them, just using two straight 18mm deep x 16mm diameter ports per driver they give a pretty usable frequency range (+/-3db) between around 400hz to 2khz.
The only deviation to that is a 2db bump around 500hz, which I'd probably just crossover a little higher to bring it into line (rolling off a bit below 500hz).

As for the drivers themselves I think they are quite nice little units, the square frame format means the cone extends nice and near to the edge making them easier to get close to the tweeter.
Also because the cone angle is relatively shallow the air chamber in front is automatically small making them easily reach up to 2khz with little or no effort.
I hope this helps.

Paul.

SEdwards · 8th March 2013, 11:52 AM

I would love to see the measurements for the Visaton M10s. Since I'm still in Germany for a couple more months I've been thinking about picking some up for a future Synergy build (first want to make some AMT tweeters for the apex).

Is it the size of the horn or the FS of the M10 that is the primary cause the roll off below 500 Hz in your measurements?

PaulSmith · 8th March 2013, 04:01 PM

Unfortunately I didn't save a plot with Visaton M10 drivers on (just have a few figures written down) and have moved on a bit with that horn with a number of other changes.
So any measurements I'd make now wouldn't be typical ones.

As for the roll off below 400-500hz,
The horn I played with isn't very large with only a 24" x 12" mouth so it may have a bit of an effect.
However having said that when I tried similar midranges with a lower FS figure on the same horn they didn't roll off until around 300hz.
So I suspect that it is indeed the FS which has the greater effect in this case.
I hope this helps,

Paul.

28th February 2013, 10:11 PM	#666
Paul W diyAudio Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: North Georgia	Also some similarity to an AMT. Are the upper and lower ducts to the center of the M2 offset/isolated from each other or are truly open/in parallel? __________________ Paul The Octagon

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Bandpass Woofer/Midrange?	m@	Multi-Way	5	25th March 2006 02:10 AM
looking for 6.5inch woofers suitable for a 30 - 35Hz horn... and a small horn too :P	SkinnyBoy	Multi-Way	24	13th February 2004 05:06 AM

New To Site?	Need Help?
Register to Participate Search Privacy Statement Contact Us	Frequently Asked Questions Did you forget your password? Mark Forums Read


	Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you. Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving

26th February 2013, 07:30 PM	#661
Patrick Bateman diyAudio Member Join Date: Oct 2006	The new JBL M2 uses a unity-ish arrangement for frequency range of 800hz to 20khz. It appears that there are two ring radiators, operating face-to-face, and the output of the rings are horn loaded via a common channel. Interesting stuff. This is the second time I've noticed JBL copping some Unity-type technology. (The first was the midranges in one of their array lines.) I wonder how similar this JBL dual diaphragm ring radiator is to BMS's dual diaphragm ring radiator? Some pics of the response, to give you an idea of it's performance. Also, for lulz, here's a pic of my first horn speakers, which I bought based on a positive review in Stereophile, back when I was an audio noob. Second pic are my Summas. Third pic is the JBL M2. I'm seeing a family resemblance here

27th February 2013, 02:35 AM	#663
TMHutson diyAudio Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: SoCal	Woah, is that a pair of HLS 810? I found one at the swapmeet, and was mad when the couldn't find the other one. I wanted a pair, and they were CHEAP. I had purchased a pair at cost when I worked for a consumer retailer back in the day. Best sounding cheap speakers I have ever owned. I was leary at first as I didn't like low model Klipsch. But these were fun... (no bass, but I was ok with that at the time) I am curious to see if anyone in america comes up with a synergy or unity build that uses decent drivers. I am still considering playing with unity (I will have a pair of CD's by end of summer to play with for econowaves, too)...

1st March 2013, 03:38 AM	#667
TMHutson diyAudio Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: SoCal	I was happy with the synergy design with the clarion drivers, but being the kit was designed in Australia with odd drivers made it impossible for me to get it at that time. I was thinking about trying the pyle mids with the unity horn design just for fun, after my wood working skills improve a bit. The pyle mids are easy to get... But the 2" clarion seemed to solve some issues... Oh well... P.S... I worked for BB for almost a decade. That place satiated my home/audio car bug when i was younger as I got cost on stuff. Made it easier to play around with stuff... I could own it for a while, then sell it when I wanted to try something else. Hey, if it was not for us selling even basic JBL, I would not know what EOS stood for Of all the years I worked for them, those were my favorite speakers by far... (I liked the advent laureattes as well). I still want to make a unity or synergy horn... need to improve my wood working skills first. I was bummed when the S3 horns were made with the orion mids. Too hard to get, especially for playing around. The pyle's look like they are cheap and easy to get still...

8th March 2013, 11:52 AM	#669
SEdwards diyAudio Member Join Date: Dec 2011	I would love to see the measurements for the Visaton M10s. Since I'm still in Germany for a couple more months I've been thinking about picking some up for a future Synergy build (first want to make some AMT tweeters for the apex). Is it the size of the horn or the FS of the M10 that is the primary cause the roll off below 500 Hz in your measurements?

8th March 2013, 04:01 PM	#670
PaulSmith diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2006	Unfortunately I didn't save a plot with Visaton M10 drivers on (just have a few figures written down) and have moved on a bit with that horn with a number of other changes. So any measurements I'd make now wouldn't be typical ones. As for the roll off below 400-500hz, The horn I played with isn't very large with only a 24" x 12" mouth so it may have a bit of an effect. However having said that when I tried similar midranges with a lower FS figure on the same horn they didn't roll off until around 300hz. So I suspect that it is indeed the FS which has the greater effect in this case. I hope this helps, Paul.