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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Suitable midrange cone, for bandpass mid in Unity horn.
Suitable midrange cone, for bandpass mid in Unity horn.
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Old 20th September 2012, 09:19 PM   #621
JLH is offline JLH  United States
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The local area of expansion (flare rate) dictates how low the mid will play. The cross sectional area dictates how high you will get high frequency loading from the horn. This is a different issue than the 1/2 wave length cancellation notch. The area the mid taps into needs to have a circumference less than or equal to the wave length of highest frequency of interest. For 900Hz you want to tap into the horn where the area is approximately 115cm^2 and 146cm^2 for 800Hz. You have to balance the 1/2 wave length cancellation notch, the local area of expansion, and the area of the tap in point all simultaneously to get a Unity or Synergy horn to work correctly.
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Old 28th September 2012, 04:49 PM   #622
Patrick Bateman is offline Patrick Bateman  United States
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My Paraline experiments inspired me to try something which is basically equivalent to an unfolded paraline. A Paraline is a horn with a coverage angle of zero degrees that radiates in 360 degrees. If you take a ninety degree slice out of that, you end up with this:

Click the image to open in full size.

Details here:DIYMA Car Audio Forum - View Single Post - Creating The Perfect Soundstage
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Old 29th September 2012, 01:29 AM   #623
SunRa is offline SunRa  Romania
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Cool, oblate spheroid and unity back again
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Old 13th October 2012, 09:35 AM   #624
PTrim is offline PTrim  Australia
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I ordered some of the Visaton M10 drivers and just measured the specs-

FS=629
VAS=0.2ltr
QTS=3.24
QES=5.19
QMS=8.58

I measured 2 of the drivers and obtained similar results with both. The VAS was measured with the added mass method. If anyone is interested I got my drivers through this company- M 10 - 8 Ohm

I am going to have a go at designing a Synergy horn now I have these specs.

Cheers Paul
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Old 13th October 2012, 08:18 PM   #625
SunRa is offline SunRa  Romania
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I'v plugged-in the data you measured (thanks for publishing this) in John's Unity Midrange Spreadsheet and it's a bit off compared to the original midrange used in Unity.

Please post the results of your build, I'm curious of what you can get with this driver!
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Old 22nd November 2012, 03:00 PM   #626
Patrick Bateman is offline Patrick Bateman  United States
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I know there's a lot of people reading this thread that don't have the time to build a synergy horn, or the space that's required to get it to play down to 300hz. Here's an alternative you might consider:

Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.

This is the satellite from a KEF KHT1005. Here's a list of reasons you might consider it in lieu of a Synergy horn:

1) after screwing around with Unity horns for over half a decade, I'm convinced that their fundamental goodness has little to do with their efficiency, and a LOT to do with the near-perfect transition from midrange to tweeter. Basically a Unity/Synergy horn fools our brain into thinking it's one wide-bandwidth driver.
2) Once you hear this done properly, conventional two-ways will never sound the same; I can't listen to a conventional two-way without *immediately* knowing that something is wrong. Literally the second I walk into a room.
3) The KEF UNI-Q isn't perfect, but it has a LOT of the Unity goodness. I think this is due to (you guessed it) the near-perfect transition from midrange to tweeter. This is especially notable on vocals and percussion.

Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.
4) One way to determine if a loudspeaker has some of that Unity goodness is to look at the polar response. The graph above shows the polar response of two loudspeakers. The first is a conventional two-way (Focal Chorus 807V) and the second is a Kef UNI-Q (Q900).

Note how the transition from the Kef's midrange to tweeter is nearly perfect? To the microphone, it seems to be one driver. There's a little 'wiggle' at 5khz where the midrange hands off to the tweeter. But that 'wiggle' isn't as severe as the noticeable widening of directivity that occurs with the Focal two-way. (Note how the Focal directivity gets much broader at 4khz? That's because the tweeter is much smaller than the woofer, and so has wider directivity. In the Kef, the midrange cone acts like a waveguide for the tweeter, so the directivity change is verrrrrrrry slooooooow.


I couldn't find any directivity plots of the KHT1005 online, but I'm willing to bet it's comparable to the Q900 that was measured by Stereophile.

Click the image to open in full size.
Here's a frequency response measurement of the KHT1005 satellite, from Home Theater magazine.


Last but not least, I think that one of the most important reasons that Synergy horns don't sound like regular speakers is that they're symmetrical. For instance, a regular two-way speaker is generally optimized for good horizontal directivity (if it's optimized at all.) It's hard to get good vertical directivity from a two-way, due to the fact that the pathlength differences vary greatly depending on angle. The Synergy horns don't have this problem; if you flip an SH-50 on it's side, the directivity is the same.

The same is true with a Kef UNI-Q, at least down to 300hz or so. (Synergy SH-50 is admittedly symmetrical down to a much lower frequency.)


If all of this has piqued your curiosity, the final icing on the cake is that the UNI-Q can be had for about $50 per satellite for the next 24 hours. Newegg has them on their Black Friday flyer. Even if you DIY, it's pretty easy to spend $50 per channel on a Synergy horn *crossover*, and that doesn't even factor in the cost of drivers, labor, failed experiments, and anti-depressants when your midranges don't work

I'm putting my money where my mouth is, and buying ten

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-82156028-L06A

promo code is EMCJJHF34 and it's good for 24 hours.

Happy Thanksgiving!
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Old 25th November 2012, 11:46 AM   #627
Pallas is offline Pallas  Pakistan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
I know there's a lot of people reading this thread that don't have the time to build a synergy horn, or the space that's required to get it to play down to 300hz. Here's an alternative you might consider:

Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.

This is the satellite from a KEF KHT1005. Here's a list of reasons you might consider it in lieu of a Synergy horn:

1) after screwing around with Unity horns for over half a decade, I'm convinced that their fundamental goodness has little to do with their efficiency, and a LOT to do with the near-perfect transition from midrange to tweeter. Basically a Unity/Synergy horn fools our brain into thinking it's one wide-bandwidth driver.
2) Once you hear this done properly, conventional two-ways will never sound the same; I can't listen to a conventional two-way without *immediately* knowing that something is wrong. Literally the second I walk into a room.
3) The KEF UNI-Q isn't perfect, but it has a LOT of the Unity goodness. I think this is due to (you guessed it) the near-perfect transition from midrange to tweeter. This is especially notable on vocals and percussion.
FWIW, I've had a quad of those baby KEF eggs for quite some time. Three of them are going to end up in my CitroŽn at some point. (One spare.) They're fairly smooth-sounding, though they get nasal if pushed.

For those who can fit it, KEF's slightly larger 3005 egg is a lot better. The midrange is cleaner, and the treble is a lot better due to the radial phase plug and possibly just better tweeter design. The raw driver isn't that expensive to buy from Speaker exchange, either.

The new Q100 driver is better still, but much larger. (Bigger diameter, and MUCH bigger motor structure because it's ferrite rather than neo.)

And I agree, midrange mushroom cloud polar response (as found on that Focal) is very obvious, and very annoying.
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Old 30th November 2012, 04:12 AM   #628
Beau is offline Beau
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John (Patrick John, not John-John), Tried to send you a pm, your box is full.
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Old 30th November 2012, 05:20 AM   #629
Patrick Bateman is offline Patrick Bateman  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beau View Post
John (Patrick John, not John-John), Tried to send you a pm, your box is full.
fixed!
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Old 6th December 2012, 11:08 AM   #630
Beau is offline Beau
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Ha, its full again.
Anyway, these specs sound ok?
Fs 74hz
Spl 95db
Qes. 25
Accordian surround
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