Suitable midrange cone, for bandpass mid in Unity horn. - Page 23 - diyAudio
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Old 8th March 2011, 02:54 AM   #221
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It depends on how you load the midbass. If you put the exits from the midbass front chamber right by the mouth of the horn, the primary advantage would probably be the bandpass configuration reducing harmonic distortion via the acoustic filter plus the smaller source size of the midbass and getting that source closer to the horn than would be possible with an MTM arrangement. So say you did dual 15's in an MTM with a 15" mouth unity in between. You'd have polar narrowing from the 15's in the 150hz range. If you put the exits of a bandpass in the horn where the horn is less than ~7" across for JLH's stated goal of 500hz, then that effect does not exist. The pattern should be smooth and symmetric (assuming the horn is symmetric) as you go down in frequency and the pattern widens based on the size of the horn mouth. But if you made the horn mouth bigger, you could get some loading for the drivers, match the sensitivity of the mids and lower power compression from the midbass drivers.

Putting all that aside, when I made a 3-way unity about 10 years ago even though I didn't know what I was doing and had a crappy alignment for the midbass drivers, it was awesome and very coherent sounding.
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Old 11th March 2011, 12:34 AM   #222
JLH is offline JLH  United States
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The 4552NDs showed up today from Assistance Audio. Still waiting on Misco to finish building the mids. I'm thinking of getting started after my kids have their Spring Break from school.
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Old 25th March 2011, 02:54 AM   #223
JLH is offline JLH  United States
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The 30 (half case) Misco RDC3T-A showed up today. What a fantastic little driver. The workmanship is very good. Oh this is going to be good. Once back from spring vacation I'll get started on turning my Akabak script into real life. I'm thinking I'll start a new thread in about a month. I don't think I'll have much to share until then. Still need to order the measurement equipment and learn how to use it.
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Old 25th March 2011, 07:14 AM   #224
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Originally Posted by JLH View Post
The 30 (half case) Misco RDC3T-A showed up today. What a fantastic little driver. The workmanship is very good. Oh this is going to be good. Once back from spring vacation I'll get started on turning my Akabak script into real life.
Great to hear the Misco drivers met your expectations. My dealings with them have been most professional.
I think you should be working on these speakers rather than having holidays!
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Old 10th April 2011, 05:16 PM   #225
kessito is offline kessito  Netherlands
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Default Phase curve?

Hi JLH,

Could you please explain to me why the phase curve in your akabak sim looks so awfully good? If you look at the synergy you see +- 180 degree in the higher operating range, which one would expect (which still is very good for a threeway) But is you look at your sim, it only has +- 60 degree phase shift from 150Hz upwards, which is a little too good.. Are you using linear phase x-overs in this sim?
As I understand it, the synergy is three way, the bandpass chambers of the mids and the lows would cause 180 degrees, and an electronically 2nd order x-over would cause another 180 degrees (per x-over). I understand that you can gain something because the lower drivers are placed ahead in time physically, but I can't imagine how you could get the phase so good. Am I missing something here? Please explain cause I am very interested in your design and if you really can accomplish this I will certainly want to build them too!
Thanks in advance,
Kessito
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Old 20th May 2011, 03:58 PM   #226
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Update?
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Old 23rd May 2011, 12:44 AM   #227
JLH is offline JLH  United States
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Once I got the compression drivers and mids in I discovered that what I had modeled in Akabak was not physically possible. Iíve had little time to rework the script to reflect the real world measurements of the components. I hope to get moving as my work settles down again. Iíve been on reassignment for two months because another department canít seem to get their crap together. I still plan to have a working Synergy horn by winter.
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Old 23rd May 2011, 12:57 AM   #228
JLH is offline JLH  United States
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Originally Posted by kessito View Post
Hi JLH,

Could you please explain to me why the phase curve in your akabak sim looks so awfully good?
Because I designed to be that way. Its all about looking at the phase relation between the drivers due to their physical spacing while taking into consideration the phase rotation you will get after you add the crossovers. Its a balancing act and takes a lot of simulation time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kessito View Post
As I understand it, the synergy is three way, the bandpass chambers of the mids and the lows would cause 180 degrees, and an electronically 2nd order x-over would cause another 180 degrees (per x-over). I understand that you can gain something because the lower drivers are placed ahead in time physically, but I can't imagine how you could get the phase so good. Am I missing something here? Please explain cause I am very interested in your design and if you really can accomplish this I will certainly want to build them too!
Thanks in advance,
Kessito
You are thinking in too hard of terms. The phase is always changing with frequency. Its not strictly just 180 degrees or this or that - its continiously changing. There is a far amount of overlap in my crossovers. Once I get the crossover points and physical position of the drivers phase coherent, I then work on making the crossovers as phase linear (minimal phase) as possible without messing up the frequency response. Its is not an easy task and takes lots of time and experence. That's as good as I can explain it - this subject is far too complex to explain on a forum.
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Old 23rd May 2011, 10:32 PM   #229
jeno is offline jeno  Norway
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Thanks for the update JLH.

JLH or others,

just as an experiment... How large would it be possible to make a Synergy horn before the highs would begin to suffer? I mean the hard part of the Synergy horn is the design, entry holes, back chambers crossovers etc. If you've got the room, there would be no problem to make a large conical horn. You would gain directivety control and horn loading further down in frequency, but would it be a downside to it?
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Old 24th May 2011, 01:13 AM   #230
JLH is offline JLH  United States
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Thanks for the update JLH.

JLH or others,

just as an experiment... How large would it be possible to make a Synergy horn before the highs would begin to suffer? I mean the hard part of the Synergy horn is the design, entry holes, back chambers crossovers etc. If you've got the room, there would be no problem to make a large conical horn. You would gain directivety control and horn loading further down in frequency, but would it be a downside to it?
Take a look at the Danley SH-25 to get an idea how big they can be made.
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