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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Suitable midrange cone, for bandpass mid in Unity horn.
Suitable midrange cone, for bandpass mid in Unity horn.
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Old 25th March 2011, 01:54 AM   #221
JLH is offline JLH  United States
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The 30 (half case) Misco RDC3T-A showed up today. What a fantastic little driver. The workmanship is very good. Oh this is going to be good. Once back from spring vacation I'll get started on turning my Akabak script into real life. I'm thinking I'll start a new thread in about a month. I don't think I'll have much to share until then. Still need to order the measurement equipment and learn how to use it.
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Old 25th March 2011, 06:14 AM   #222
Antripodean is offline Antripodean  Australia
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Great to hear the Misco drivers met your expectations. My dealings with them have been most professional.
I think you should be working on these speakers rather than having holidays!
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Old 10th April 2011, 04:16 PM   #223
kessito is offline kessito  Netherlands
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Default Phase curve?

Hi JLH,

Could you please explain to me why the phase curve in your akabak sim looks so awfully good? If you look at the synergy you see +- 180 degree in the higher operating range, which one would expect (which still is very good for a threeway) But is you look at your sim, it only has +- 60 degree phase shift from 150Hz upwards, which is a little too good.. Are you using linear phase x-overs in this sim?
As I understand it, the synergy is three way, the bandpass chambers of the mids and the lows would cause 180 degrees, and an electronically 2nd order x-over would cause another 180 degrees (per x-over). I understand that you can gain something because the lower drivers are placed ahead in time physically, but I can't imagine how you could get the phase so good. Am I missing something here? Please explain cause I am very interested in your design and if you really can accomplish this I will certainly want to build them too!
Thanks in advance,
Kessito
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Old 20th May 2011, 02:58 PM   #224
bubblersound is offline bubblersound  United States
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Update?
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Old 22nd May 2011, 11:44 PM   #225
JLH is offline JLH  United States
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Once I got the compression drivers and mids in I discovered that what I had modeled in Akabak was not physically possible. Iíve had little time to rework the script to reflect the real world measurements of the components. I hope to get moving as my work settles down again. Iíve been on reassignment for two months because another department canít seem to get their crap together. I still plan to have a working Synergy horn by winter.
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Old 22nd May 2011, 11:57 PM   #226
JLH is offline JLH  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kessito View Post
Hi JLH,

Could you please explain to me why the phase curve in your akabak sim looks so awfully good?
Because I designed to be that way. Its all about looking at the phase relation between the drivers due to their physical spacing while taking into consideration the phase rotation you will get after you add the crossovers. Its a balancing act and takes a lot of simulation time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kessito View Post
As I understand it, the synergy is three way, the bandpass chambers of the mids and the lows would cause 180 degrees, and an electronically 2nd order x-over would cause another 180 degrees (per x-over). I understand that you can gain something because the lower drivers are placed ahead in time physically, but I can't imagine how you could get the phase so good. Am I missing something here? Please explain cause I am very interested in your design and if you really can accomplish this I will certainly want to build them too!
Thanks in advance,
Kessito
You are thinking in too hard of terms. The phase is always changing with frequency. Its not strictly just 180 degrees or this or that - its continiously changing. There is a far amount of overlap in my crossovers. Once I get the crossover points and physical position of the drivers phase coherent, I then work on making the crossovers as phase linear (minimal phase) as possible without messing up the frequency response. Its is not an easy task and takes lots of time and experence. That's as good as I can explain it - this subject is far too complex to explain on a forum.
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Old 23rd May 2011, 09:32 PM   #227
jeno is offline jeno  Norway
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Thanks for the update JLH.

JLH or others,

just as an experiment... How large would it be possible to make a Synergy horn before the highs would begin to suffer? I mean the hard part of the Synergy horn is the design, entry holes, back chambers crossovers etc. If you've got the room, there would be no problem to make a large conical horn. You would gain directivety control and horn loading further down in frequency, but would it be a downside to it?
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Old 24th May 2011, 12:13 AM   #228
JLH is offline JLH  United States
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Take a look at the Danley SH-25 to get an idea how big they can be made.
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Old 24th May 2011, 08:11 AM   #229
jeno is offline jeno  Norway
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Yes, had forgotten that one. An Sh-25 like horn with four times the area and double coverage would have been something. Must be built in room though, wouldn't fit through the doors.
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Old 14th July 2011, 06:36 PM   #230
Patrick Bateman is online now Patrick Bateman  United States
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A few months back I bought a cheap set of JBL speakers at Costco, mostly out of curiosity. I ran them for a few months, then switched back to my reference. (Gedlee Summas.) While everything about the Summa is better, there's one thing the JBL does that I miss - the top octave is better. The compression driver in the Summa has virtually no output above sixteen kilohertz.

I know this is a non-issue for most; but I can easily hear 20khz. (I've run tone tests on headphones, it's quite audible for me.)

So I was a bit interested in this speaker from Peavey:

Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.
It's no Unity horn, but it is similar. A unity horn is a three way line array that's been wrapped around a conical horn in three dimensions. The Peavey design is a three way line array that's been wrapped around a horn in *two* dimensions.

It's interesting that they're using ribbons at the apex.

A few years ago I tried a ribbon on a horn, and it worked very nice. While ribbons are quite fragile, their excellent cumulative spectral delay is a nice match for a horn or a waveguide, because the horn increases their durability by reducing excursion. And a ribbon can easily play to 30khz on a horn, while a compression driver will have a tough time.

Here's the description from the manual. BTW they're $8000 a pair at Parts Express.

"The Versarray 212 Ribbon Tweeter Line Source Array module consists of 2 dual 12” Neo Black Widow woofers combined with a neodymium-based, Peavey-exclusive midrange line array and planar ribbon tweeter line source in a cabinet with a highly flexible rigging system. Designed to provide modular coverage of medium to large venues and intended for use with the companion Versarray Sub models, the Versarray 212 offers extreme versatility and high performance.
The three-way system consists of the following driver components: two 12” Black Widow Neo series woofers with neodymium magnet structure. The woofers are capable of over 500W of continuous power handling (AES Std 2-1984) each.
The midrange is handled by ten 2.5” Neo magnet midrange drivers, providing a total of 200W of continuous power handling, at a high sensitivity of 101 dB. The high frequencies are handled by four Peavey-exclusive planar ribbon tweeters utilizing a neodymium magnet system, firing into a manifold and creating a line source mounted to a low distortion waveguide. Capable of 200W continuous power handling, the tweeter line source array provides a crystal-clear high end."


http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...ource=googleps

Last edited by Patrick Bateman; 14th July 2011 at 06:44 PM.
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