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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Suitable midrange cone, for bandpass mid in Unity horn.
Suitable midrange cone, for bandpass mid in Unity horn.
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Old 1st October 2013, 10:38 PM   #1231
JLH is offline JLH  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weltersys View Post
JLH,

The two way DSL SH 95 uses two 8" drivers in a 13" deep cabinet with the exits near the horn throat, and has +/- 3 dB response 200- 20kHz, -6 dB at 70 Hz, and much smoother phase response than the 22.5" deep three-way SH-50.

Why are you thinking the m10 needs to be "mounted so far forward", and why don't you want to use a higher order crossover?

Art
I'm fully aware of all of the Danley offerings and what their specs are. I'm doing a 3-way Synergy horn with a compression driver, four sealed back mids, and a pair of woofers. That is what I'm focused on. In all due respect I'm not interested in other ideas.

You must have misread what I wrote. Its not the mid that needs to be mounted so far forward, its the woofer. We need to get the cancellation notch for the woofer to fall into line with the mid's low frequency roll off. If the mid does not roll off until 300Hz, then the woofer entry ports have to be positioned about 28cm further down the horn than the mid entry ports. This makes for a horn that is more or less the same size as the other 3-way Synergies. The RDC3T-A rolls of around 550Hz, which allows the horn length to be reduced by about 13cm. This will create a domestically more friendly package. I don't want to use higher order crossovers because they involve more parts, present more of a design challenge, and they are more expensive to implement. The goal is to design the horn with the right drivers so that simple low order crossovers can be used.
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Old 1st October 2013, 10:44 PM   #1232
JLH is offline JLH  United States
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Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
I think this is because the Synergy horn is unique in the respect that adding drivers can actually improve the phase response. (This is because each driver 'hands off' to the next driver, therefore it's harder to get the phase correct with a two-way than a three way.)
That is exactly what all my simulations have shown me. When I add the woofer and make my horn a 3-way Synergy the phase flattens quite a bit. This really surprised me at first. Glad to see someone else recognize this too.
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Old 1st October 2013, 10:52 PM   #1233
JLH is offline JLH  United States
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Few pics of the candidates.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg misc_visaton_3.jpg (105.7 KB, 126 views)
File Type: jpg misc_visaton_2.jpg (83.2 KB, 128 views)
File Type: jpg misc_visaton_1.jpg (78.2 KB, 116 views)
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Old 1st October 2013, 11:14 PM   #1234
Patrick Bateman is offline Patrick Bateman  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JLH View Post
Few pics of the candidates.
Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

It's scary how many midranges I've tried :O
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Old 1st October 2013, 11:16 PM   #1235
weltersys is offline weltersys  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JLH View Post
That is exactly what all my simulations have shown me. When I add the woofer and make my horn a 3-way Synergy the phase flattens quite a bit. This really surprised me at first. Glad to see someone else recognize this too.
The 2 way DSL SH-100 has flatter mid-range phase response than the three way DSL Synergies, but as you said "In all due respect I'm not interested in other ideas."
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Old 2nd October 2013, 12:12 AM   #1236
JLH is offline JLH  United States
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One more for John, so he doesn't out do me by too much.

B&C Speaker 8PE21-16, Eminence Eminator 1506, Visaton M10-8, Misco RDC3T-A, Tang Band W2-852SH.

Somewhat a disappointment, the Visaton is audibly lower in sensitivity than all the rest. Will have to meter it to see if its my ears playing tricks on me.

The Tang Band W2-852SH works better than what it deserves. Just don't like the rubber surround and the price.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg speakers_BC_Emin_Visa_Misc_TB.JPG (121.4 KB, 145 views)
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Old 2nd October 2013, 08:28 AM   #1237
Hrmmf is offline Hrmmf  Denmark
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- Also ordered just one Visaton m10 to measure it and check what the air volume is under the cone. [/QUOTE]

John,

How do you measure the volume under the cone?

Do you just measure the outer geometry of the rear chamber, then subtracting the cone volume?

...or do you just cut the thing open, filling it with water, then subtracting the cone volume

/Thomas
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Old 2nd October 2013, 09:31 AM   #1238
kees52 is offline kees52  Netherlands
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What when use a dome mid?

For the 8 inch two way synergy these have a compression driver who go from say 800 Hz
otherwise it will not work wel?

I have done with the FRS-8 a closed box first, with 0.2 liters I get 350 FS 2,40 QTC.

one picture simulated with the changed fs and qtc the other with open back.

I go try with akabak and the script here then I can simulate the whole thing in one go.


regards

kees
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ScreenHunter_01 Oct. 02 11.46.jpg (56.5 KB, 431 views)
File Type: jpg ScreenHunter_02 Oct. 02 11.50.jpg (56.6 KB, 424 views)
File Type: jpg ScreenHunter_03 Oct. 02 11.53.jpg (35.5 KB, 418 views)

Last edited by kees52; 2nd October 2013 at 10:00 AM.
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Old 2nd October 2013, 10:08 AM   #1239
JLH is offline JLH  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hrmmf View Post
- Also ordered just one Visaton m10 to measure it and check what the air volume is under the cone.
Pour salt on to the cone and level it off. Pour the salt into a graduated cylinder and read the level.
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Old 2nd October 2013, 10:29 AM   #1240
Hrmmf is offline Hrmmf  Denmark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JLH View Post
Pour salt on to the cone and level it off. Pour the salt into a graduated cylinder and read the level.
I actually use kitchen wrap and water, but I will try salt next time.

But I was really interested in the volume under the cone!

/Thomas
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