Suitable midrange cone, for bandpass mid in Unity horn. - Page 123 - diyAudio
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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 29th September 2013, 07:26 AM   #1221
Hrmmf is offline Hrmmf  Denmark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weltersys View Post
A Synergy with a pair of Alpha 6A (or 8A) and HF driver would allow a crossover point of around 100 Hz to the 18" woofer, which means the woofer placement is not very critical, as it would be if you were using it up to 500 Hz.

If you want to spend more money there are better B&C cones.

For bass use making the 2 way Synergy wedge shape like the DSL SH-90 (which uses 2 x8" and a 1") would be a good move.

You could do removeable BR port covers for use with or without the sub.
Art!

I'm actually working on a model with the Alpha 6A (sealed box Synergy). It looks very promising using four drivers, adding needed gain to the low end. The Alphas' diaphram displacement is kept just below x-max (3.0mm @ 100Hz hitting 119dB) with the port velocity below 17m/s, port size 3.15cm. I'm hoping that the port size won't mess up the high frequency with carefull port geometry and placement!

I've modeled the Beta 6A as well. It drops of a tad faster towards the low end, but it has higher power handling and x-max (4.5mm). Furthermore, it shows better roll-off characteristics in the top end, making it easier on the crossover.

Maybe the Beta is the better choice, though it adds $10 a piece, or what do you think?

Note: The frequency range I'm working on is 100-700Hz.

/Thomas
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Old 29th September 2013, 11:08 AM   #1222
kees52 is offline kees52  Netherlands
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I did a export with hornresp, but in sketchup and with use off push pull I do not get the angles right, but it do go very strange when try to push pull it making open corners and not a nice closed angle, yeahh it is difficult to explane, my technical english is not so well.

Ohh yeah, it is a test from a simulation, so don,t get to serieus about it, i did let see what I get when export through hornresp, the last flare hornresp make a error, or better, hornresp is not made to do that, I have write david about it, maybe he find it interesting to implement.

regards

kees
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ScreenHunter_04 Sep. 29 12.56.jpg (62.9 KB, 246 views)
File Type: jpg ScreenHunter_03 Sep. 29 12.55.jpg (89.6 KB, 237 views)
File Type: jpg ScreenHunter_05 Sep. 29 13.09.jpg (89.5 KB, 236 views)

Last edited by kees52; 29th September 2013 at 11:15 AM.
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Old 29th September 2013, 06:51 PM   #1223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hrmmf View Post
Art!
The (four) Alphas' diaphram displacement is kept just below x-max (3.0mm @ 100Hz hitting 119dB) with the port velocity below 17m/s, port size 3.15cm. I'm hoping that the port size won't mess up the high frequency with carefull port geometry and placement!

I've modeled the Beta 6A as well. It drops of a tad faster towards the low end, but it has higher power handling and x-max (4.5mm). Furthermore, it shows better roll-off characteristics in the top end, making it easier on the crossover.

Maybe the Beta is the better choice, though it adds $10 a piece, or what do you think?

Note: The frequency range I'm working on is 100-700Hz.
Thomas,

What is your reason for designing for sealed rather than bass reflex?
Granted the LF phase response for sealed is smoother, but you have twice the throat port holes and drivers for the same LF output.

I have had experience comparing the Alpha and Beta 8 in my sealed two way Paraline cabinets (eights run 100-850 Hz, sixes could go higher), seemed the reduced LF meant that more power was needed, so the end result was similar, didn't seem worth the additional speaker and amplifier $$.

If you post your Alpha 6/Beta 6 simulations I could give a more informed opinion between the two.

Art
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Old 30th September 2013, 10:08 AM   #1224
Hrmmf is offline Hrmmf  Denmark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weltersys View Post
Thomas,

What is your reason for designing for sealed rather than bass reflex?
Granted the LF phase response for sealed is smoother, but you have twice the throat port holes and drivers for the same LF output.

I have had experience comparing the Alpha and Beta 8 in my sealed two way Paraline cabinets (eights run 100-850 Hz, sixes could go higher), seemed the reduced LF meant that more power was needed, so the end result was similar, didn't seem worth the additional speaker and amplifier $$.

If you post your Alpha 6/Beta 6 simulations I could give a more informed opinion between the two.

Art
Thank you for your input, Art.

The reason I'm going sealed is that I have the impression that this alignment shows better transient behavior than relflex, or am I missing something? - You also mentioned the phase response.

The simulations are made by aid of the Bill walso Synergy spreadsheet, 60 x 40, 160Hz mouth.

Note: I'm employing DEQX duties in a 3-way active system: Synergy >~100Hz + subs below

/Thomas
Attached Images
File Type: png Alpha_6A_AcousticPow.PNG (69.5 KB, 200 views)
File Type: png Alpha_6A_Excursion.PNG (53.8 KB, 196 views)
File Type: png Alpha_6A_PortVel.PNG (58.6 KB, 39 views)
File Type: png Beta_6A_AcousticPow.PNG (68.2 KB, 43 views)
File Type: png Beta_6A_Excursion.PNG (53.4 KB, 44 views)
File Type: png Beta_6A_PortVel.PNG (57.8 KB, 34 views)

Last edited by Hrmmf; 30th September 2013 at 10:17 AM.
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Old 30th September 2013, 03:36 PM   #1225
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Originally Posted by Hrmmf View Post
The reason I'm going sealed is that I have the impression that this alignment shows better transient behavior than relflex, or am I missing something?
Thomas,

Sealed should have better transient behavior in the low crossover region than reflex (though 1/2 the speakers in a bass reflex could achieve about the same SPL ), and the Beta does look better than the Alpha in the sim.

Since it is your money, I recommend the most expensive solution .

Art
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Old 30th September 2013, 04:14 PM   #1226
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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Originally Posted by weltersys View Post

Since it is your money, I recommend the most expensive solution .

Art
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Old 30th September 2013, 04:24 PM   #1227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kees52 View Post
I did a export with hornresp, but in sketchup and with use off push pull I do not get the angles right, but it do go very strange when try to push pull it making open corners and not a nice closed angle, yeahh it is difficult to explane, my technical english is not so well.

Ohh yeah, it is a test from a simulation, so don,t get to serieus about it, i did let see what I get when export through hornresp, the last flare hornresp make a error, or better, hornresp is not made to do that, I have write david about it, maybe he find it interesting to implement.

regards

kees
Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.

I just published a thread on how to make waveguides in Autodesk 123D design, then print them with Autodesk 123D Make.

Might be of interest to you.

No More Monkey Coffins!
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Old 30th September 2013, 04:39 PM   #1228
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Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
I just published a thread on how to make waveguides in Autodesk 123D design, then print them with Autodesk 123D Make.
Patrick,

What is the cost of a three-D printer capable of printing out a 28" x 28" x 22.5" horn, and what would the cost of plastic printing materials be for 3/4" thickness on the horn and enclosure?
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Old 30th September 2013, 06:23 PM   #1229
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Originally Posted by weltersys View Post
Patrick,

What is the cost of a three-D printer capable of printing out a 28" x 28" x 22.5" horn, and what would the cost of plastic printing materials be for 3/4" thickness on the horn and enclosure?
way too much.

I just print the slices on paper, glue the slices to foam, and cut the foam on a bandsaw.

It's surprisingly fast.

I built the big foam horn pictured in that thread in less than four hours.

I don't think I would use this construction method for a simple shape. For instance, I have wood conical horns that I've built in under two hours. Where this method becomes compelling is complex shaped. For instance, a roundover at the mouth of a horn makes an audible and measurable difference. But up until now, I've used PVC to make my roundover, as does my reference monitors. (Gedlee Summas.) But adding the roundover takes time. I'd say that it adds about an hour to make the roundover.

Building a Unity horn out of foam allows for some really crazy shapes. Big fat roundovers. Assymmetrical horns. Horns with a built-in angle, similar to the old JBL Everest horns from the 80s.

Click the image to open in full size.
The JBL Everest is a good example of what I'm after. If the Everest cabinet was tilted to cross-fire the speaker, it would take twice as much floor space. But having the waveguide include a built-in angle makes the foot print quite manageable.
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Old 30th September 2013, 06:45 PM   #1230
Hrmmf is offline Hrmmf  Denmark
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Originally Posted by weltersys View Post
Thomas,

Since it is your money, I recommend the most expensive solution .

Art
You sound just like my banker

/Thomas
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