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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 8th October 2006, 07:55 PM   #1
Variac is offline Variac  United States
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Default This is Split off from another thread

This thread is split from :

How should I wire my 1500 watt speakers?

The original thread was started by Mr. Punkrockr looking for a speaker design that met his needs. Now that he has decided on this design it will be easier to have it in its own space...


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Hey Scottmoose and everyone else!!!:

How about something like this but with a 12" driver:
HOW ABOUT USING THAT 12" Eminence with whizzer that Pano (and other people) loves!!!

http://www.zillaspeak.com/BibBassHorns.asp
(Scottmoose is in the middle of these designs he knows how to design them..)

See pics of small versions with 6 or 8" drivers
http://www.zillaspeak.com/bib-pics.asp

imagine cabinets this tall, but instead of being about 8" wide, they'd be about 18" wide!! HUGE!!! (those drivers in the photos are 6 inch I believe...)

(as Pano has mentioned , the Hammer Loudspeaker
(not the same people that sell the Hammer drivers) uses almost exactly this 12" driver full range with a small supertweeter.

http://www.hammerdynamics.com/



-Punk could see his driver as it won't be bundled inside of a horn.
-Big 12" driver
-Loud as hell
-Huge cabinet!
-simple crossover - possibly the Hammer one works fine- just a supertweeter at the highest frequencies possibly. Maybe some shaping down low.. We need to look at the Hammer crossover- it is all over this forum..Quite possibly the horn will accomplish a lot of what the hammer "crossover " does as far as any shaping...

Hey, guys, I think this might be it! Loud, cheap, and easy- always desireable characteristics in people or speakers!!!! Please consider this everyone. This could be the best party speaker price/performance ever!!!

Total driver cost about $150 for TWO speakers!!!And it would have many of the desireable full range characteristics.Much more coherent than a multiway PA style!.The increased bass might counteract the rising response, AND handle Baffle step.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshow...90-409&scqty=2

Specs:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pdf/290-409s.pdf

Now I know some of you are concerned about the wiggley nature of the response, but keep in mind that all full range drivers plot pretty rough, but other fine characteristics they have balance this out. Look up the popular Fostex's to see this, but keep in mind Fostex smooths their curves radically so they are worse than shown.

Another tweak is to roll off the bass some as Nelson Pass does on the J-Low to limit excursion, but I don't think this will be a problem with a 12"

The horn won't go super low, but as has been mentioned here many times, Punk needs LOTS of bass, not low bass, AND I think these would be actually quite good sounding. And at about 100db/watt efficient- Punkr can just about use a Sonic Impact amp
with 10 watts/ch and still be driven out of the room!

So,
Easy crossovers, because there really is only one on the super tweeter. Addresses the phase and discontinuety issues that people mention about PA speakers. These are basically concentric drivers
so the sound is extremely coherent- read the reviews on the Hammer site.
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Old 8th October 2006, 09:51 PM   #2
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A good idea IMO. For myself, the response doesn't worry me greatly -I've seen much worse from commercial units. A BIB is possible, though it ain't going to be small!. A reverse taper would also be an interesting option. When I'm fully awake I'll look into it.
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Old 8th October 2006, 10:09 PM   #3
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Hmmm......
Back horn loaded 12" Or is TL? Hmmmm....

As you say, simple and cheap to try. The wood is the most expensive part. And if Punkrokr didn't like it, he could pull it apart, use the wood & Beta 12s in the next project and have a great 12" mid to build on.

Might be worth a shot. Anyone know how to model that big enclosure for the Beta 12LTA?

It would probably sound a lot better than the project I came up with. 4x10" Pyramid clear woofers per side - 2x5" Pyle mids - 1x bullet tweeter. Lights behind the woofers that flash with the music. Maybe not the world's best sounding party speaker - but big, cheap, loud and FUN!
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Old 9th October 2006, 12:04 AM   #4
Variac is offline Variac  United States
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Quote:
nyone know how to model that big enclosure for the Beta 12LTA?
Scottmoose does and he promised to look into it!!!
That web site is Scott's

Also note that he mentioned that it will be big!! Punkr won't mind that!! probably 7' high and 18" wide- that big enough for you?
Almost no crossovers-that solves a big problem.

Tinitus: I don't believe he will need anything other than the 12LTA. The horn really augments the bass to counteract the baffle step that you use a 2.5 to correct usually. As you say the 2.5 is over budget so why do it when this will do the job...

Let's not propose different horn types. This one will work AND scottmoose understands it. If we start going into other types, we are going to discover no one knows how to design one- back to the same problem-people proposing designs they aren't able to implement.

If this works I suspect lots of people will make 'em for party speaks. A cheap way to save your audiophile speakers!!
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Old 9th October 2006, 12:30 AM   #5
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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I have overlooked that Scott will design this horn ....doublehorn??.... if thats the case I think its a very good idea ... backloaded with 12" will have insane bassoutput ... and driver can take a lot of power, unlike small fullrange drivers ....that will be pretty loud

But I would like it more than 18" wide


I grew up with horn building .... so, yes I love the idea
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Old 9th October 2006, 03:18 AM   #6
Variac is offline Variac  United States
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Tinitus , thanks for your support. I really think we can all get behind this. It isn't my design, so that's not why I'm promoting it. I just think it might WORK.

Everyone gets something:

its horn loaded like Cal and tinitus and others like.
It uses the 12LTD that Panomaniac likes,

It's beeeg and insanely loud like Punkrockr always wanted
Punkr- a horn is the way to make the bass from a 12" amazingly loud. Most people don't make 'em because the box will be so big- but you don't mind... You want a single piece big box- this design has to be big and has to be a single box. The box isn't very hard to make either. Also- who would have thought we could make something BASSY and LOUD with that budget?

We have to wait until we see what Scottmoose comes up with, but if he gets it worked out, this will be another part of your dream- it will be a custom design just for you! Sure, I'll bet more people make it later, but you will have the first!!

Best of all it will sound good enough that we audiophiles won't feel guilt.

P.S. Tinitus, I just guessed 18: wide, but seems about what it will be, However it will be deep I'll bet!!

Hey there's an idea: can't the driver be mounted in the "side" of the cabinet? at the same height of course...So the cabinet would be wide and not so deep? I meant , it will be off to one side when looking from the front, to keep it in the horn throat. Then the cabinet would be about 7' tall and 4' wide and 18" deep!! We shouldn't go more than 4' if possible due to the size of a piece of plywood.

I think I need a pair of these for my next big party!



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Old 9th October 2006, 06:27 AM   #7
Variac is offline Variac  United States
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Useful speaker design we can use

http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell...terburner.html


Hammer crossover and info:

http://melhuish.org/audio/super12.html#forum


The Fostex FT17H mentioned is a decent tweeter. I've got a pair.
If Punkr sends me a photo of the finished boxes with the 12" drivers installed I'd give him a great deal.... they are about $35 each mail order.

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Old 9th October 2006, 07:45 AM   #8
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Ah yes, the "Afterburner" project. Been looking at that one for years.

Problem is, Eminence has changed the Beta 12LTA. The old driver had an X-max of 0.8mm - the new version has about 3mm. Not the same driver anymore. But I doubt this will make any difference to Punkrokr, except that it might be better for him. More volume!

If the Beta12LTA works in a huge TL cab, it could lead to fun things. There are not many 12" fullrange drivers out there, but there are plenty of 10/12/15" coax drivers that might work even better. At a higher cost, of course.
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Old 9th October 2006, 10:21 AM   #9
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshow...=264-360&DID=7
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Old 9th October 2006, 12:22 PM   #10
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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Hi,

I give up. Its not like he's got a flea powered amplifier and is
not planning to use a subwoofer. In the end reality bites .....

/sreten.
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