Hi,
For the rebuilding of a pair of ipl transmissionlines I'm looking for a dome tweeter that can be crossed very low (1 to 1.5 khz, preferably with 1st order or else 2nd order slope) --- this would enable me to use a 6db slope on the alu cone woofer, getting rid of the current 18db slope at 3khz.
Probably heresy (just curious): Can certain dome tweeters (no piezo's) be operated without XO providing they are ran at a fraction of their max. output (say with 1 or a few tube watts) AND still sound close to the performance they would give when filtered of following textbook recommendations? I accidentally ran a pair of monacor dt-28n for a couple of hours without filter and they sounded surprisingly good...
Thanks!!
Simon
For the rebuilding of a pair of ipl transmissionlines I'm looking for a dome tweeter that can be crossed very low (1 to 1.5 khz, preferably with 1st order or else 2nd order slope) --- this would enable me to use a 6db slope on the alu cone woofer, getting rid of the current 18db slope at 3khz.
Probably heresy (just curious): Can certain dome tweeters (no piezo's) be operated without XO providing they are ran at a fraction of their max. output (say with 1 or a few tube watts) AND still sound close to the performance they would give when filtered of following textbook recommendations? I accidentally ran a pair of monacor dt-28n for a couple of hours without filter and they sounded surprisingly good...
Thanks!!
Simon
Hi Salas,
The Seas looks like a good idea, Tangband looking a little 'deep' on first sight. I had my eyes set on the Peerless Vline xt25tg but the zaphaudio review doesn't recommend crossing it over too low - although I doubt he would agree with crossing any of the other candidates at 1.5K, 12db. The Northcreek D28 with specs quite similar to both the mentioned candidates gets designers approval to cross it as low as 1.5k with second order slope so I think it must be doable to use the other (cheaper) tweeters the same manner.
Thanks for your tips!
Simon
The Seas looks like a good idea, Tangband looking a little 'deep' on first sight. I had my eyes set on the Peerless Vline xt25tg but the zaphaudio review doesn't recommend crossing it over too low - although I doubt he would agree with crossing any of the other candidates at 1.5K, 12db. The Northcreek D28 with specs quite similar to both the mentioned candidates gets designers approval to cross it as low as 1.5k with second order slope so I think it must be doable to use the other (cheaper) tweeters the same manner.
Thanks for your tips!
Simon
Obviously I disagree!!
I've got a pair of s3tml's, the first speakers I've ever built. I had the crossover redesigned years ago which made a big difference already (which has already proved that reworking it can yield good results
) but the designer was still stuck with the original tweeter. When lowering the crossover to 1.5k a first order on the woofer gets possible (probably beating the S**** out of the 3rd order filter) and an XT25 with 2nd order filter is very likely to sound better than the original seas metaldome at 3khz, also 2nd order. An important side-benefit would be the better blending of both drivers as Fx gets lowered. Apart from those future-plans I've already cut out the fake dust-caps and plan to fill up the ventilation hole in the pole-piece (I don't plan to pump more than 10 watts into the thing anyway). That how I see it, I love the s3tml's for the breathtaking bass they produce but when compared to widerange drivers or two-ways with lower order filters they just make music sound unnaturally complicated (less coherent) and lack openness. We'll hear what it brings. The worst that can happen is that I'll have to revise certain beliefs which is never a bad thing.
Best,
Simon
I cross my SS 9500's at 1k5. No big deal Crossover is first order.
I don't usually break SPL records but I can fill a room with sound. I have the impedance flattened at resonance and the crossover turns 2nd order around fs. Still though, if I get rid of the notch and the inductor, it still sounds good and plays surprisingly loud considering.
Crossover is first order.I don't usually break SPL records but I can fill a room with sound. I have the impedance flattened at resonance and the crossover turns 2nd order around fs. Still though, if I get rid of the notch and the inductor, it still sounds good and plays surprisingly loud considering.
Hi,
First order on a metal coned driver ? what about BSC ?
If you can measure then fine, also see tweeter tests here :
http://www.zaphaudio.com/tweetermishmash/
/sreten.
First order on a metal coned driver ? what about BSC ?
If you can measure then fine, also see tweeter tests here :
http://www.zaphaudio.com/tweetermishmash/
/sreten.Didn't think of that; the vifa has a very gentle acoustic rolloff - about 3db/octave 1500-->500hz, don't know what this will result in exactly. SS9500 has a roll-off steeper than 10db/octave.
Nice to hear, gives me a little leverage
I'll also experiment with first order filter than, combined with series notch. Time will tell if it works, if I'm not mistaken the former 3rd order gives 3k= -3db / 6k= -21db; my first order would give: 1.5k= -3db / 3k= -9db / 6k= -15db and the removal of the dustcaps might help some or alot too, haven't listened since. The zaphaudio site doesn't recommend crossing the xt25 over too low, certainly not with lower order filters but that's based on measurement and I'll use my ears as definite judge; can measure FR though
Simon
G'day, l didnt want to buy into this argument but having had some expeience with an ipl design: [ building a pair for a friend and measuring them with my imp audio analyser and finding the cross over less than satisfactory?] l would suggest scrapping the x/over and using a series one instead similar to the acoustic reality, there are a number of sites dealing with this type on the net... though off the top of my head l cant give any links..... try googling for andy graddon and searching this site
cheers TC
Hello Gwad,
That's a very interesting thought; I had been thinking about a series filter because a first order has 9db slope which would - if all the other benefits of first order filters remain - be a big plus in my case. There's a great website of a Dutch diy-er who only uses series filters with a tutorial on these exotica: http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/ I'll do a search as you recommend. Would be great to experiment with this method.
The original s3tlm filter is rather crap but I LOVE the woofer and TL design + spent a lot of time and money on the cabinets (mdf + birchply sandwich); I think they deserve a good minimalist crossover and will thank me for it
Cheers,
Simon
edit: The sensored word was cra-p, not shi-t, I'ld never type such an ugly word in civilised conversation. Damn it
That's a very interesting thought; I had been thinking about a series filter because a first order has 9db slope which would - if all the other benefits of first order filters remain - be a big plus in my case. There's a great website of a Dutch diy-er who only uses series filters with a tutorial on these exotica: http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/ I'll do a search as you recommend. Would be great to experiment with this method.
The original s3tlm filter is rather crap but I LOVE the woofer and TL design + spent a lot of time and money on the cabinets (mdf + birchply sandwich); I think they deserve a good minimalist crossover and will thank me for it
Cheers,
Simon
edit: The sensored word was cra-p, not shi-t, I'ld never type such an ugly word in civilised conversation. Damn it
Klimon said:
Don't bother with the searching, mate. Here's the stuff you want.
http://users.tpg.com.au/users/gradds/SeriesXO/series_cross-overs1.htm
Have fun !!
Oh and don't try to cross the Vifa XT25 low without a big LCR trap on its res point.. it won't sound very good !!!
as they say if the mountain wont come to muhammed then muhammed will come to the mountain
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