Any Experience with Troels Gravesen Designs???

[ocaukrell]

Low bass, ok, have you experienced a 12" pro jbl ?

My SP95 and Ekta go deeper than my JBL 4311B's.

Not by much I'll admit, but I think you'd need a fairly decent sub to get much deeper.

It's enough to shake walls in slab and brick veneer house.

 

[cougarz]

Hello
PMS stay for Poor Man Stradivari. His stradivari are different, but he just made some tries, didn't still finish the project. You can find it in Wide Baffle design or ACAPELLA WB paper.
i have built EKTA project. My first hi-end loudspeaker and i still need to put it in a decent room. Anyway sounds good. I just made little modification to attenuation. Mids were too low and tweeter were too high.
I also suggest PMS. Not easy cabinet but high sensivity, low cost seas driver (here in europe they cost twice!!) , easy crossover, great performances.
About Zahra...Troels said they play loud but he weren't excited from sound accuracy.
Bye
Paolo (ITALY)

 

[ScottG]

By the way, if you could afford it, go for the SEAS magnesium drivers. They have better bass with much better bass definition than paper cone. They also do a very nice job of reproducing the human voice. Only drawback of the mag. drivers is that they may not have the speed compared to the paper cone.

Here is an good article on the SEAS drivers:
http://www.northcreekmusic.com/Pegasus/Pegasus.htm

Troels mentions the subjective differences between the two on the Excel version here under the heading "Sound of PMS-EXCEL":

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/PMS-EXCEL.htm

My opinion differs here (from andy2's) - the normal PMS will offer a more accurate sound reproduction regardless of amplification precisely because it will sound more "dynamic" - and IMO once you have heard the difference it is very hard to do without this character. Additionally, the PMS will simply be an easier "load" on an amplifier - and as such will allow a MUCH wider range of choices for amplification, which in the long run I believe is crucial (..allowing you a lot more flexibility without having to change loudspeakers).

Note you can see the actual Stradivari Loudspeaker here:

http://www.sonusfaber.com/index_altri.html

and a review here:

http://stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/105sonus/

 

[mlammert]

Well, it seems many people are suggesting the PMS to start out with...

I think I will go with the PMS and then maybe move to the Ekta or the Acapella-SE...

I am going to begin reviewing the build document for the PMS...

Any good amplifier recommendations for these speakers???

I know a lot has to do with the speakers load and sensativity... However, can anyone recommend a good brand and/or model of amp/pre-amp that I could use for a wide range of diy speakers???

As I said previsously, I have no system at all right now and am looking to dive head first into this so I will need a source, pre, and amp for the speakers I build...

Willing to spend a little more now and not have to get a different amp in the future...

Thanks,
Mark

 

[seve]

I have just visited Troels to hear the C17-III, and they actually surprised me as they handled my nicely produceed hard rock really well. They really excel with the speed, transient and the soundstage is really good, but as with all speakers there is shortcommings. Though considering they size etc I actually would not call it a shortcomming, but some might find the bass to weak and I would agree it's not really deep or at least not compared with my point75I. Though I am seriously considering building a pair of C17-III as 94-95dB would make it easier making a nice Class A amp and the cabinett is quite easy to build.

Still I think I would consider the PMS a better overall speaker, but at some points I actually prefer the C17-III which also would match my skills with woods much better.

Martin

 

[andy2]

I have just visited Troels to hear the C17-III, and they actually surprised me as they handled my nicely produceed hard rock really well. They really excel with the speed, transient and the soundstage is really good, but as with all speakers there is shortcommings. Though considering they size etc I actually would not call it a shortcomming, but some might find the bass to weak and I would agree it's not really deep or at least not compared with my point75I. Though I am seriously considering building a pair of C17-III as 94-95dB would make it easier making a nice Class A amp and the cabinett is quite easy to build.

Still I think I would consider the PMS a better overall speaker, but at some points I actually prefer the C17-III which also would match my skills with woods much better.

Martin

Hi Seve,

Did you get a chance to listen to his TJL2+Seas tweeter and AcapellaSeas?

I have the classic TJL and AcapellaSe that use Aurum Cantus G2si tweeter but I found them a bit laid back. Did you get a chance to compare the differences between using the G2Si vs. Seas tweeter?

Thanks.

 

[seve]

Hi Seve,

Did you get a chance to listen to his TJL2+Seas tweeter and AcapellaSeas?

I have the classic TJL and AcapellaSe that use Aurum Cantus G2si tweeter but I found them a bit laid back. Did you get a chance to compare the differences between using the G2Si vs. Seas tweeter?

Thanks.

Hi Andy.

No I did not hear the TJL2+Seas tweeter and AcapellaSeas. Actually the TJL's I have only heard the first version of and I did not find that as good as his Acapella or point75i so I never really did use much time reflecting about their sound. The Acepella Se I actually really like with the ribbon, but I have never gotten around to listening to the version with the seas tweeter. Sorry. Though I don't think I really find the Acapella Se laid back though I prefer the upper mids of the point75I and the lower mids of the Acapelle Se. I find that the point75I has a little more "spark" in the upper mids. I don't know if this i what you miss? Perhaps you should send Troels a mail perhaps he have a crossover suggestion the could suite your taste!?

Martin

 

[Willitwork]

One last thing:
Any recommendations on CD Player/Pre-Amp/Amps would also be appreciated... This is truly my first system (entirely)...

NAD. Regardless of price Nad electronics provide uncompromised sound. They also provide incredible value but to many Nad owners that's just a bonus, as they would have bought them even if they cost twice as much. I know I would. Considering your room size I would suggest the C-320BEE integrated amp which is very conservatively rated at 50 watts per channel, but likely delivers more. This amp is upgradeable as it has preamp outputs and main inputs which means you can hook it to a more powerful power amp and use it as a preamp, if so you desire. If you look inside you'll notice features that are usually only found on units costing considerably more, starting with the power supply. The "downside" is that this amp's looks are all but spectacular, it only has a few knobs and switches, it's not a show-off piece. The sound is powerful and accurate. Personally I have one of those and a Naim Nait costing X times more, but I prefer the Nad. It comes with a rather large remote control because the same unit is used for all Nad amplifiers and receivers, so there are functions on the RC that have no use of integrated power amplifiers.

For a CD player I still suggest a Nad unit, either the C521BEE or the C542 if you want HDCD capability. They both look exactly the same except for the display, the 521BEE has a weird screen-type display but that's forgiveable given the astounding sound quality. Both players have a digital output, a feature not always found at this price point. Personally I was never impressed with HDCD so I bought the 521BEE but to some people the 542 is worth the $150 premium. Both units have their own remote control unit, which is quite sturdy and large enough as to be difficult to misplace. These players are slim and inconspicuous, with very few buttons. Many functions are only accessible through the RC. Main competitors are Rotel and Cambridge audio but these cost a little more and don't sound as good.

Last but not least, you can get both units for less than a $1000 for the pair. But don't be fooled by their affordability. Many audiophile shops sell packages where these units are coupled with speakers worth thousands of dollars, and for good reason.

 

[kyselym]

Agree with Willitwork that NAD amps are really good! If you don't plan to do something on your own->go for NAD amp.

I really know what talking about...friend works as NAD serviceman here in cz and also recommends me them but forget about CD player from NAD. He says that thier quality significantly droped. But you can look for some older models...

 

[tktran303]

NAD amps (entry level)= OK
NAD top-end = GOOD

but
DIY amps = BETTER


Since I've built my own amps, I've been paralysed when it comes to buying new commercial amplifiers. I would probably have to spend a WHOLE lot more, and still run the risk of buying something that can not match a DIY amp.

For example, when the time came around to buying another amplifier for a second room, I looked high and low, near and far and still couldn't make up my mind. I would probably have to spend upwards of US$2,000 to find an equivalent.

Perhaps one day I can have a C372 for an in-home audition I wouldn't dare buy it without listening first (in case it's worse than my DIY job),

After I built my DIY amplifiers, I immediately sold my NAD C320...

 

[mlammert]

Cool... Thanks for the replies everyone... It seems a lot of people really like NAD equipment...

Now, I am just getting into DIY speakers and whatnot...

I am a pretty good woodworker... However, I am not that experienced with electronics...

I feel confident that I can hook up the crossovers if I follow the schematics...

However, are there beginner level diy amps out there that have high quality???

I am confident that I can solder some wires together and follow instructions, but I know I do not have the skill level to build an amp from scratch...

Thanks once again,
Mark

 

[Willitwork]

but forget about CD player from NAD. He says that thier quality significantly droped. But you can look for some older models...

I was told the exact opposite

I know some Nad CD players prior to the BEE series had problems playing CD-R's and although the company never admitted so this may have been due to some anti-piracy device installed in the player. In any case, NAD must have fixed this big time because the 521 now plays CDR's no other player, regardless of quality, would play. In fact I have yet to find a type/brand of CDR it won't play.

As for the sound well, I like it a lot. The old NADs sounded too "wide" for my taste. This is a question of personal taste, I prefer tight and accurate sound, such as the sound my old YBA player delivered before it passed away (way too costly to fix)

The $1200 Cambridge Audio player I had bought 3 years ago looked cool and sounded okay in the store, but turned out to be a turkey. The much more affordable NAD sounds much, much better. One look under the hood tells me it's better built too.

 

[Willitwork]

It seems a lot of people really like NAD equipment...

Indeed. John K. used to have a website dedicated to the sole purpose of signing the praises of NAD electronics

Now even more people like them because they cost less than they used to when they were manufactured in the UK. They are still designed there, but built in China now. I don't want to insult the British, but it seems to me that the build quality is even better now lol

In any case, their sound quality is totally out of proportion with their price, sorta like what happens with Hi-Vi speakers. We still have to get used to the idea that the Chinese can produce outstanding quality products at ridiculously low cost. Because of this I try not to let the asking price influence my subjective impression of a product's quality like I used to. This applies both ways of course, pricey doesn't necessarily imply good quality.

Now, I am just getting into DIY speakers and whatnot...

I am a pretty good woodworker... However, I am not that experienced with electronics...

I feel confident that I can hook up the crossovers if I follow the schematics...

However, are there beginner level diy amps out there that have high quality???

I am confident that I can solder some wires together and follow instructions, but I know I do not have the skill level to build an amp from scratch...

Thanks once again,
Mark

The main reason I suggested NAD was precisely because I figured you probably wouldn't want to venture into DIY electronics just now and that for a similar investment you can still get a commercial product of audiophile quality. When done properly DIY amps are a better value, but it can be tricky and it's somewhat risky (you can muff it) so it's better to start with commercial electronics; this way at least you'll have backups should something go wrong when you decide to go DIY.

 

[ScottG]

However, are there beginner level diy amps out there that have high quality???

I am confident that I can solder some wires together and follow instructions, but I know I do not have the skill level to build an amp from scratch...

Thanks once again,
Mark

Umm... Try looing at my first post on page 1.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=86890

 

[mlammert]

Once again, thanks for all the responses and info guys... I really appreciate it...

Mark

 

[andy2]

I suggest looking into used stuffs:

audiogon.com

You can find some very good deals there.

 

[fgroen]

I just came across this topic, since I bought componentry for the W1500/97, so I was curious for feed-back, since I still need to start building.

I will use this small speaker in my living room, being driven by a Densen Beat B100 and a TEAC VRDS-20 CD-player. I just wanted to make a comment on the NAD comments: I never heard a good NAD amp. I must say, that I only heard fairly budget level equipment from NAD, but it didn't anything for me.

Maybe I'm a bit spoilt, since my first amp I owned was a second-hand Accuphase E-203 (back in the 80's), and it has only gone uphill from there.

Right now my reference is driven by Classé poweramp and ML preamp, an excellent combination.

I would say, ditch the NAD idea and get something decent.

 

[kwng11]

This is the same question i am asking, but seems not much people will know the answer~
actually, the think the sound is quite soft and not agressive at treble, but bass is strong and compared and small to mid floor stand

 

[jon37bw]

I am comming back to Troels speaker designs.
Does anybody has experiences with Point75i concerning placement in a room ?
The distance to the rear wall should be at least 60cm.
What if one speaker is located near a corner, the other not ?
I have doubts if in such a situation dipol speakers are a good choice.
What about Ekta or TJLW3 ? Is the bass performance as good as with Point75i ?

Jens

 

[seve]

I am comming back to Troels speaker designs.
Does anybody has experiences with Point75i concerning placement in a room ?
The distance to the rear wall should be at least 60cm.
What if one speaker is located near a corner, the other not ?
I have doubts if in such a situation dipol speakers are a good choice.
What about Ekta or TJLW3 ? Is the bass performance as good as with Point75i ?

Jens

I have the Point75i build by Troels him self and will answer as good as I can, but I find it quite difficult to describe sound with langauge, but I will try.

I have found that sound is effected by the distance to the rear wall and my speakers are place about 60 cm from the rear wall. I find the sound being more compressed if they are to close to the wall, but I find most speakers placed to close to the wall reacting this way.

My speakers are actually placed such that the one speaker is rather close to one corner, which is around 1 m away. The sound is better when they are moved a little more away from the corner, but I can live with the effects. The proAc 2.5 clone i owned before on the other hand was way too boomy in the bas placed in the same position.

Overall I like this speaker very much, but it needs some power to really open up, which is why I will try his C17 MK4 as an alternativ, but still keep the Point75i.

I have not heard the EKTA and can not comment on that one.

Regarding the TJLW3 which I have only heard for a very short time so my comments my not be correct. I remember the bas to be quite better/more powerfull in the point75i. Also I much prefered the point75i overall, but then again I am also biased towards the point75i.

What about the Acapella have you considered that one?

Regards
Martin