Any Experience with Troels Gravesen Designs??? - Page 3 - diyAudio
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Old 26th September 2006, 12:05 AM   #21
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Low bass, ok, have you experienced a 12" pro jbl ?

My SP95 and Ekta go deeper than my JBL 4311B's.

Not by much I'll admit, but I think you'd need a fairly decent sub to get much deeper.

It's enough to shake walls in slab and brick veneer house.
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Old 28th September 2006, 11:38 PM   #22
cougarz is offline cougarz  Italy
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Hello
PMS stay for Poor Man Stradivari. His stradivari are different, but he just made some tries, didn't still finish the project. You can find it in Wide Baffle design or ACAPELLA WB paper.
i have built EKTA project. My first hi-end loudspeaker and i still need to put it in a decent room. Anyway sounds good. I just made little modification to attenuation. Mids were too low and tweeter were too high.
I also suggest PMS. Not easy cabinet but high sensivity, low cost seas driver (here in europe they cost twice!!) , easy crossover, great performances.
About Zahra...Troels said they play loud but he weren't excited from sound accuracy.
Bye
Paolo (ITALY)
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Old 29th September 2006, 12:02 AM   #23
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by andy2

By the way, if you could afford it, go for the SEAS magnesium drivers. They have better bass with much better bass definition than paper cone. They also do a very nice job of reproducing the human voice. Only drawback of the mag. drivers is that they may not have the speed compared to the paper cone.

Here is an good article on the SEAS drivers:
http://www.northcreekmusic.com/Pegasus/Pegasus.htm
Troels mentions the subjective differences between the two on the Excel version here under the heading "Sound of PMS-EXCEL":

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/PMS-EXCEL.htm

My opinion differs here (from andy2's) - the normal PMS will offer a more accurate sound reproduction regardless of amplification precisely because it will sound more "dynamic" - and IMO once you have heard the difference it is very hard to do without this character. Additionally, the PMS will simply be an easier "load" on an amplifier - and as such will allow a MUCH wider range of choices for amplification, which in the long run I believe is crucial (..allowing you a lot more flexibility without having to change loudspeakers).

Note you can see the actual Stradivari Loudspeaker here:

http://www.sonusfaber.com/index_altri.html

and a review here:

http://stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/105sonus/
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Old 2nd October 2006, 02:08 PM   #24
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Location: Saint Louis, MO
Well, it seems many people are suggesting the PMS to start out with...

I think I will go with the PMS and then maybe move to the Ekta or the Acapella-SE...

I am going to begin reviewing the build document for the PMS...

Any good amplifier recommendations for these speakers???

I know a lot has to do with the speakers load and sensativity... However, can anyone recommend a good brand and/or model of amp/pre-amp that I could use for a wide range of diy speakers???

As I said previsously, I have no system at all right now and am looking to dive head first into this so I will need a source, pre, and amp for the speakers I build...

Willing to spend a little more now and not have to get a different amp in the future...

Thanks,
Mark
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Old 2nd October 2006, 03:40 PM   #25
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I have just visited Troels to hear the C17-III, and they actually surprised me as they handled my nicely produceed hard rock really well. They really excel with the speed, transient and the soundstage is really good, but as with all speakers there is shortcommings. Though considering they size etc I actually would not call it a shortcomming, but some might find the bass to weak and I would agree it's not really deep or at least not compared with my point75I. Though I am seriously considering building a pair of C17-III as 94-95dB would make it easier making a nice Class A amp and the cabinett is quite easy to build.

Still I think I would consider the PMS a better overall speaker, but at some points I actually prefer the C17-III which also would match my skills with woods much better.

Martin
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Old 2nd October 2006, 03:47 PM   #26
andy2 is offline andy2  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by seve
I have just visited Troels to hear the C17-III, and they actually surprised me as they handled my nicely produceed hard rock really well. They really excel with the speed, transient and the soundstage is really good, but as with all speakers there is shortcommings. Though considering they size etc I actually would not call it a shortcomming, but some might find the bass to weak and I would agree it's not really deep or at least not compared with my point75I. Though I am seriously considering building a pair of C17-III as 94-95dB would make it easier making a nice Class A amp and the cabinett is quite easy to build.

Still I think I would consider the PMS a better overall speaker, but at some points I actually prefer the C17-III which also would match my skills with woods much better.

Martin
Hi Seve,

Did you get a chance to listen to his TJL2+Seas tweeter and AcapellaSeas?

I have the classic TJL and AcapellaSe that use Aurum Cantus G2si tweeter but I found them a bit laid back. Did you get a chance to compare the differences between using the G2Si vs. Seas tweeter?

Thanks.
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Old 2nd October 2006, 04:07 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by andy2

Hi Seve,

Did you get a chance to listen to his TJL2+Seas tweeter and AcapellaSeas?

I have the classic TJL and AcapellaSe that use Aurum Cantus G2si tweeter but I found them a bit laid back. Did you get a chance to compare the differences between using the G2Si vs. Seas tweeter?

Thanks.
Hi Andy.

No I did not hear the TJL2+Seas tweeter and AcapellaSeas. Actually the TJL's I have only heard the first version of and I did not find that as good as his Acapella or point75i so I never really did use much time reflecting about their sound. The Acepella Se I actually really like with the ribbon, but I have never gotten around to listening to the version with the seas tweeter. Sorry. Though I don't think I really find the Acapella Se laid back though I prefer the upper mids of the point75I and the lower mids of the Acapelle Se. I find that the point75I has a little more "spark" in the upper mids. I don't know if this i what you miss? Perhaps you should send Troels a mail perhaps he have a crossover suggestion the could suite your taste!?

Martin
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Old 2nd October 2006, 05:44 PM   #28
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Default Re: Any Experience with Troels Gravesen Designs???

Quote:
One last thing:
Any recommendations on CD Player/Pre-Amp/Amps would also be appreciated... This is truly my first system (entirely)...
NAD. Regardless of price Nad electronics provide uncompromised sound. They also provide incredible value but to many Nad owners that's just a bonus, as they would have bought them even if they cost twice as much. I know I would. Considering your room size I would suggest the C-320BEE integrated amp which is very conservatively rated at 50 watts per channel, but likely delivers more. This amp is upgradeable as it has preamp outputs and main inputs which means you can hook it to a more powerful power amp and use it as a preamp, if so you desire. If you look inside you'll notice features that are usually only found on units costing considerably more, starting with the power supply. The "downside" is that this amp's looks are all but spectacular, it only has a few knobs and switches, it's not a show-off piece. The sound is powerful and accurate. Personally I have one of those and a Naim Nait costing X times more, but I prefer the Nad. It comes with a rather large remote control because the same unit is used for all Nad amplifiers and receivers, so there are functions on the RC that have no use of integrated power amplifiers.

For a CD player I still suggest a Nad unit, either the C521BEE or the C542 if you want HDCD capability. They both look exactly the same except for the display, the 521BEE has a weird screen-type display but that's forgiveable given the astounding sound quality. Both players have a digital output, a feature not always found at this price point. Personally I was never impressed with HDCD so I bought the 521BEE but to some people the 542 is worth the $150 premium. Both units have their own remote control unit, which is quite sturdy and large enough as to be difficult to misplace. These players are slim and inconspicuous, with very few buttons. Many functions are only accessible through the RC. Main competitors are Rotel and Cambridge audio but these cost a little more and don't sound as good.

Last but not least, you can get both units for less than a $1000 for the pair. But don't be fooled by their affordability. Many audiophile shops sell packages where these units are coupled with speakers worth thousands of dollars, and for good reason.
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Old 3rd October 2006, 08:07 AM   #29
kyselym is offline kyselym  Czech Republic
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Agree with Willitwork that NAD amps are really good! If you don't plan to do something on your own->go for NAD amp.

I really know what talking about...friend works as NAD serviceman here in cz and also recommends me them but forget about CD player from NAD. He says that thier quality significantly droped. But you can look for some older models...
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Old 3rd October 2006, 10:41 AM   #30
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Perth, WA
NAD amps (entry level)= OK
NAD top-end = GOOD

but
DIY amps = BETTER


Since I've built my own amps, I've been paralysed when it comes to buying new commercial amplifiers. I would probably have to spend a WHOLE lot more, and still run the risk of buying something that can not match a DIY amp.

For example, when the time came around to buying another amplifier for a second room, I looked high and low, near and far and still couldn't make up my mind. I would probably have to spend upwards of US$2,000 to find an equivalent.

Perhaps one day I can have a C372 for an in-home audition I wouldn't dare buy it without listening first (in case it's worse than my DIY job),

After I built my DIY amplifiers, I immediately sold my NAD C320...
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