Energy 22 Ref Con Restoration

bigerik · 21st September 2006, 01:08 AM

Hi Everyone
I have had these speakers (Energy 22 Reference Connoseur) for a little while now, and with every upgrade of my equipment ahead of them, they keep sounding better. Of course, they sound bloody horrible being driven by crap electronics.
Anyhow, I am so happy with them, that I feel they are deserving of a complete restoration. They were the 2nd last set off 22's out of the factory, but they are still more than 15 years old. The cabinets (rosewood) are going to get a complete going over. More importantly, I want to rebuild and upgrade the crossover. Am not looking at making huge changes to it, but rather just rebuild it with modern, higher quality pieces.
Has anyone undertaken a project like this on the 22's? Any recommendations?
Thanks
Erik

sdclc126 · 21st September 2006, 02:12 AM

I can only make some general recommendations:

Some photos would be nice, especially of the crossover.

A schematic of the crossover would be very helpful - all the components and their values, etc. - this will help others here to offer advice on what, or what not, to do with the x-over.

Check the inside of the cabs for bracing - they may be able to benefit from some additional if the factory went a little light on that.

What kind of condition are the drivers in? If you are planning to replace them, they would have to be the original types, or else you won't have the original speakers anymore; you might want to check with Energy to see if they carry replacements.

That's all I can offer - you'll find most people here build their own from scratch, or from kits or others' designs, so restoration of an older commercial model isn't as common a topic. But if you love your speakers then go forth and enjoy your project! Restoration is a commendable undertaking.

I still listen to my 30-year-old Yamaha NS-670s - I can't bear to part whith them, so I know where you're coming from!

hooha · 21st September 2006, 03:53 PM

Hi Erik,

Having worked for the company when they were still being produced I think I can jogg the memory enough...

The xover used a combination of poyester and electrolytic caps - 18db for the tweeter and 12db for the woofer. Replacing these would make sense if you plan to upgrade. The coil on the woofer was ferrite core so don't bother with that. The tweeter coil was air core and wound with 20AWG wire.

The xover was point to point wiring and all components were glued to a piece of masonite. I don't believe they went PCB until the new line came out.

The 22's had more than sufficient bracing in them. You could however replace the fibreglass as it may have shrunk over the years. It was an overdamped design so make sure you replace what you take out.

Really, not much else you could do for "upgrading". I recall coming across a few tweeters that leaked causing some problems, but unless you can get ahold of new units, there's not much you can do.

Hope this helps you.

Best,
Mark

PS: I still have a pair of 22 tweeters and one woofer if you want to do some experimenting - they are from the original 22 Reference.

bigerik · 23rd September 2006, 10:49 PM

Excellent info!
Thanks
I will post more about the project as I go along. Never know, someone might be interested!
Been building DIY speakers for over twenty years now, but these things are too impressive not to hang onto.
THanks!
Erik

sdclc126 · 23rd September 2006, 11:09 PM

That certainly WAS excellent info - a lot better than mine.

Yes please keep us informed of progess and don't forget the photos!

hooha · 25th September 2006, 05:20 PM

SD, you offered an excellent guideline for getting folks started on revamping their old equipment. Nothing disappointing there...

Mark

sdclc126 · 25th September 2006, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hooha
SD, you offered an excellent guideline for getting folks started on revamping their old equipment. Nothing disappointing there...

Mark

Thanks Mark!

BTW (total sidebar here) - I purchased two MAW10s from the guy noted on your site who had several for sale - they will be arriving Wednesday and when I have them set up I will probably be giving some feedback here on the forum. The seller was very happy with them and they seem to have a very high value-to-price ratio, along with the other drivers you sell.

I encourage the members of the forum to take a look at Mark's site if you haven't already - I especially like the small brass speaker spikes he carries - simple, easy to install and excellent price - I'll be ordering some very soon!

Cheers!

spind · 25th September 2006, 06:28 PM

Hi Erik,

I answered your pm on AK, but will answer you here as well. I didn't realize that you have moved up to the ref conn's--I thought you had the pro or ref 22's. Maybe I should jump in and restore my ref conn's at the same time you are doing yours--might be fun to compare notes (though mine are teak, not rosewood :-) ). As you know, I need to get my tweeter fixed, but our crossover upgrades should be similar. There are a few old posts on Audio Asylum where people have modified their ref conn's.(the usual cap/coil modificiations, plus moving the binding posts and adding a bit of weight to the 'base/feet'. A search should find those posts. I think the cabinet bracing should be fine---that was really stressed when these were built. I know from listening to my one speaker that these are quite special and should be worth the cost/effort.

I have a friend at work who also has a pair of oak ref conns and would be happy to see what could be done to them. I also know a shop here that has a pair of ref 22's for sale; it might be interesting to compare their internals to the connoisseurs'.

Mark: wow, insider information--what more could we ask for! What is your overall assessment of these speakers? I noticed you are also in Winnipeg---perhaps I could bug you for more information sometime?

best,
Steve.

ps: for info and specs from Energy scroll down this site for a pdf file: Pro 22 and the Pro 22 Reference Connoisseur Brochure and Specs

http://www.energy-speakers.com/v2/pr...ssic-lines.php

hooha · 25th September 2006, 07:16 PM

I'm amazed that there are still Conny's floating around these days...

Spind, PM me and we'll get together to do some modding (if you want to of course). We can dissect my Reference 22's.

SD, good catch on the 10's. It sure was a freaky accident that sent the previous owner packin' his stuff...

I'm always interested to hear what others think of the stuff I bring in. My viewpoint is always so skewed for some reason.

Best,
Mark

spind · 3rd October 2006, 01:57 AM

Time is a bit tight at the present, but I thought I would keep this thread alive with some photos.

Here's the cabinet, front view:

21st September 2006, 01:08 AM	#1
bigerik diyAudio Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Toronto	Energy 22 Ref Con Restoration Hi Everyone I have had these speakers (Energy 22 Reference Connoseur) for a little while now, and with every upgrade of my equipment ahead of them, they keep sounding better. Of course, they sound bloody horrible being driven by crap electronics. Anyhow, I am so happy with them, that I feel they are deserving of a complete restoration. They were the 2nd last set off 22's out of the factory, but they are still more than 15 years old. The cabinets (rosewood) are going to get a complete going over. More importantly, I want to rebuild and upgrade the crossover. Am not looking at making huge changes to it, but rather just rebuild it with modern, higher quality pieces. Has anyone undertaken a project like this on the 22's? Any recommendations? Thanks Erik

21st September 2006, 02:12 AM	#2
sdclc126 diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: San Diego, CA	I can only make some general recommendations: Some photos would be nice, especially of the crossover. A schematic of the crossover would be very helpful - all the components and their values, etc. - this will help others here to offer advice on what, or what not, to do with the x-over. Check the inside of the cabs for bracing - they may be able to benefit from some additional if the factory went a little light on that. What kind of condition are the drivers in? If you are planning to replace them, they would have to be the original types, or else you won't have the original speakers anymore; you might want to check with Energy to see if they carry replacements. That's all I can offer - you'll find most people here build their own from scratch, or from kits or others' designs, so restoration of an older commercial model isn't as common a topic. But if you love your speakers then go forth and enjoy your project! Restoration is a commendable undertaking. I still listen to my 30-year-old Yamaha NS-670s - I can't bear to part whith them, so I know where you're coming from! __________________ Soft Dome

21st September 2006, 03:53 PM	#3
hooha diyAudio Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba	Hi Erik, Having worked for the company when they were still being produced I think I can jogg the memory enough... The xover used a combination of poyester and electrolytic caps - 18db for the tweeter and 12db for the woofer. Replacing these would make sense if you plan to upgrade. The coil on the woofer was ferrite core so don't bother with that. The tweeter coil was air core and wound with 20AWG wire. The xover was point to point wiring and all components were glued to a piece of masonite. I don't believe they went PCB until the new line came out. The 22's had more than sufficient bracing in them. You could however replace the fibreglass as it may have shrunk over the years. It was an overdamped design so make sure you replace what you take out. Really, not much else you could do for "upgrading". I recall coming across a few tweeters that leaked causing some problems, but unless you can get ahold of new units, there's not much you can do. Hope this helps you. Best, Mark PS: I still have a pair of 22 tweeters and one woofer if you want to do some experimenting - they are from the original 22 Reference. __________________ Breaking speed records - http://www.mach5audio.com

23rd September 2006, 11:09 PM	#5
sdclc126 diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: San Diego, CA	That certainly WAS excellent info - a lot better than mine. Yes please keep us informed of progess and don't forget the photos! __________________ Soft Dome

25th September 2006, 05:20 PM	#6
hooha diyAudio Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba	SD, you offered an excellent guideline for getting folks started on revamping their old equipment. Nothing disappointing there... Mark __________________ Breaking speed records - http://www.mach5audio.com


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23rd September 2006, 10:49 PM	#4
bigerik diyAudio Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Toronto	Excellent info! Thanks I will post more about the project as I go along. Never know, someone might be interested! Been building DIY speakers for over twenty years now, but these things are too impressive not to hang onto. THanks! Erik

25th September 2006, 06:28 PM	#8
spind diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Winnipeg	Hi Erik, I answered your pm on AK, but will answer you here as well. I didn't realize that you have moved up to the ref conn's--I thought you had the pro or ref 22's. Maybe I should jump in and restore my ref conn's at the same time you are doing yours--might be fun to compare notes (though mine are teak, not rosewood :-) ). As you know, I need to get my tweeter fixed, but our crossover upgrades should be similar. There are a few old posts on Audio Asylum where people have modified their ref conn's.(the usual cap/coil modificiations, plus moving the binding posts and adding a bit of weight to the 'base/feet'. A search should find those posts. I think the cabinet bracing should be fine---that was really stressed when these were built. I know from listening to my one speaker that these are quite special and should be worth the cost/effort. I have a friend at work who also has a pair of oak ref conns and would be happy to see what could be done to them. I also know a shop here that has a pair of ref 22's for sale; it might be interesting to compare their internals to the connoisseurs'. Mark: wow, insider information--what more could we ask for! What is your overall assessment of these speakers? I noticed you are also in Winnipeg---perhaps I could bug you for more information sometime? best, Steve. ps: for info and specs from Energy scroll down this site for a pdf file: Pro 22 and the Pro 22 Reference Connoisseur Brochure and Specs http://www.energy-speakers.com/v2/pr...ssic-lines.php

25th September 2006, 07:16 PM	#9
hooha diyAudio Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba	I'm amazed that there are still Conny's floating around these days... Spind, PM me and we'll get together to do some modding (if you want to of course). We can dissect my Reference 22's. SD, good catch on the 10's. It sure was a freaky accident that sent the previous owner packin' his stuff... I'm always interested to hear what others think of the stuff I bring in. My viewpoint is always so skewed for some reason. Best, Mark __________________ Breaking speed records - http://www.mach5audio.com

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