Loudspeaker Endtables

[curiousburke]

Hi All,
This is my first post here. I have been getting back into audio lately and I've always loved building stuff, so I'm thinking of building some speakers. Thank you muchly for any help you can give.

So I currently own a pair of Wharfedale Diamond 9.1s (bought demo for ~200$). My First question is, can I expect to build a speaker (probably 3 way) that will rival and surpass these speakers for roughly the same price (not including the cabinets)? I think I would like to stay with a sealed box, but that is negotiable. This will actually be the second pair I have ever built. I still listen to some sealed, 3way floorstanders I build 17 years ago. They aren't great, but that was before the internet and easy access to helpful people

The second question is about design. The reason I said "not including cabinets" is because I have been planning to build some end-tables for some time and I thought maybe I could build the speakers into them. Actually, it's more like build the endtable onto the speaker. I thought maybe I would do a top mounted tweeter with a fairly low crossover frequency so the high frequencies are nearer to ear level. I also thought I could slightly slope the front face of the end table where the mid-rang would be mounted.

What do you think of a design like this? I see this furniture/speaker has been done with subs, but how about full range speakers? The table will have a top with some inch or so of overhang. Will this kill the performance? I can see the imaging might not be great, but most of my listening is from in the room while I'm doing something else, so I seldom just sit in front of the speakers.
I don't think I will need the entire under table volume, and I'm thinking of two solutions: 1) a space between the top of the speaker and the table top that will act as a shelf. This would also be nice because it would move the mid driver away from the overhanging table top. 2) a space betow the speaker in which I could put a shelf. This would be nice because it would rais the mid driver further off the floor.

I wish I could somehow post a shetch of the design. It''s very rough, but I'm excited.

My third question is about drivers. There are so many, how do you choose? Are the dayton drivers sold at Parts Express good? It's overwhelming. I've been looking at the frequency response charts, but I don't really know what qualities I should be looking for.

Thank you again for any help with any of these questions.

Cheers,
Mark

[Cal Weldon]

Hi Mark and welcome to the forums.

The end table idea sounds exciting but it might be a little complicated. If you are still at the stage where you have not formed opinions on what kind of drivers you like, you have a long way to go before you build. The best place to start is a two way rather than three way as the XO is less of a problem. You might also want to consider a kit that provides you with the drivers and wiring and you build the cabinet. It may work out that you build a smaller box inside the end table so in essence you are building two cabinets. One for the speaker and the other is the end table to conceal the speaker. Are you planning to use the space under the table for anything?

[curiousburke]

here it is:

maybe ignore the design of the tweeter on top.

[curiousburke]

Hi Cal,

Yeah, I think you are right about the 3way being complicated, but getting a properly tuned port really scares me. Also, I like the sound of my old sealed speakers. I wouldn't think I could get much bass with a non-ported 2way.

I know it's early to start thinking about the cabinet before I've picked out the drivers, but I thought since the cabinet was rather different asking about it would be a good idea. I thought there might be a bunch of people saying it would sound like cr@#$. Well, there may still be.

thank you for your suggestions. I still can't get the image to show up. I was thinking it may be some sort of filter for new members such that you don't get a bunch of vulgar spam.

-mark

[curiousburke]

oh, I forgot. My other reason for prefering a 3way is that I can't imagine I could produce anything near as good as the Wharfedale's (2way) unless I step up to a 3way.
-m

[nunayafb]

I think you can get very decent sound out of this if you can get the x-over point down to about 100hz or so. At this freq. your ears have trouble locating the source of the driver, so the woofer sitting down low wont matter much. At this point we are approximating sat/sub systems like used in HT.

If you can only get down to 2-300hz with whatever full range you select that should work for non-critical listening, however you will have more peaks and dips at certain frequencies around the room that would be less pronounced if the speakers were closely spaced together.
I strongly recommend looking at the Jordan 2"?, I dont remember the size but I've heard it plays deep and has good sensitivity. Stay under 3" for the best off axis high frequency response, 4" will get you deeper bass but the speaker will start beaming on the high end.

[curiousburke]

nunayafb,
I assume you mean the crossover between the woofer and the mid driver. Is XO at 100 very doable? Are you suggesting the Jordan 2" for the mid? It goes so hi it seems I would hardly need a tweeter. I don't really do critcal listening, so maybe I can push the XO to 200.

In the current design the mid will also be close to the floor, but angled upward. I was only planning to put the tweeter on top. Another Idea I had was to make a seperate box for the mid and tweeter that would have a nice little cubby hole in the lower section, but could be moved onto the top for when I really want to listen.

What do you think, can the full range be placed low on the front like in the sketch?

-mark

[curiousburke]

here's another question. I've been looking at drivers and I like the looks of these which were recommended by Zaph Audio:

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshow...=297-428&DID=7

This driver is rated 100-7,000Hz, but when I look at the response graph:

http://www.partsexpress.com/pdf/297-428g.pdf

it's not clear how they choose these numbers. I would have crossed this over at something like 200Hz. I want to give the mid-range driven a definite job to do and not extend it too much.

So that brings me to another question. I was thining I would just buy the XOs, as opposed to making them. Will it be difficult to find the right range? It seems like with the vast amount of drivers compared to speakers, I should build the speakers around the XOs not the drivers. Is building the XOs a much better alternative.

Lastly, I've seen come dials that allow one to adjust the tweeter and/or mid:

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=260-240

I like the idea of having some adjustment, my amp does not have that. Does this adjust some part on the XO, or is it completely seperate? Do these degrade the sound quality in some way?

-m

[Pano]

Hi Mark,
That's a cool looking design you've got going there. Certainly not your usual speaker!

Seeing your drawing made me think of a couple of designs. One would be the Duevel mentioned in This Thread.

And there have been similar designs going back at least 30 years. In an old mid '60s catalog there is a design like the Duevel but using 4 small oval speakers around the top. Your design is a bit different, but you are doing a more or less "Non-Direct" speaker. Food for thought.

FWIW, the Dayton drivers form Parts Express are very nice. Nice prices, too. And if you look around this forum, you'll see tons of projects based on Danish drivers Peerless/ScanSpeak/Vifa. So much so, this ought to be called the "Danish DIY Corner!"

Let us know what you come up with.

[curiousburke]

hey, those Duevels are pretty neat! BTW, all those swerls on the top of the drawing are supposed to be the Bubinga veneer.

This is something to think about, but I think you're giving my design way too much credit. I wasn't so much going for "non-direct" as I was trying to fit everything in the space between the couch and the hallway

-m