punkrokr1701 said:
Hi,
Excursion is how far a cone can move linearly, mutiplied by the
effective piston diameter this gives drivers volume displacement.
Power handling of drivers has two regions - low frequencies where
the excursion limits are reached - and higher frequencies where
excursion is low and the thermal limits are reached.
Maximum bass output of a driver is related to its volume dispacement.
Its sensitivity tells you how much juice is needed to achieve maximum.
However maximum upper bass is related to sensitivity x amplifier
power so balancing the two issues is needed in a design.
/sreten.
ok, I gotta feeling what's needed.
For loudspeakers please consider these:
Parts Express Magna Cum Laude
All the tough work's been done , and you can buy all the required stuff (less enclosures) from Part's Express with the click of a button. I think in the same $$ neighbourhood ( or a little cheaper when you consider the cost of good quality cross over components)as your original idea, with 2 bass drivers (12" each I think), a single mid and a single tweeter, but designed around each other. Cross over plans are on the page. Easy ordering
For an amp the choices are greater. I'd personally like to see you move towards a better quality amplifier, but if Pro sound is what you're after , perhaps a big T amp? Carver B stock is available for near the same price as a Numark, and I'm pretty sure the Carver Pro stuff is better built. A good Crown , or Behringer would probably work out nicely too. I think the price leader of these three is the Behringer. Years ago Crown had a "Micro Reference amp" that was very powerful and very good.
Without going "nuts" in the power department, just 'cause something says 1500 watts, it really isn't. Games get played regarding specifications. A good quality 250 Watter (per channel) will slay the Numark amp you linked to. Used Brystons (a minimum of a 3B is required--100 watts RMS 20-20kHz, .0015 % THD or something like that, but a 20 year , retroactive warranty available) can be used as Arc welders, so they'll push tons of current. An industry standard for over 30 years.
With a little luck you can do this , and do it well. If you don't want to build something and get used or "B " stock items then dj123 site has some amp /speaker packages that should fit the bill and many cost less than $1000. Of note is the DJ Power Pack, with good quality JBL speakers, and a powerfull Crown XLS-602 amplifier.
As far as learning all this stuff, unfortunately some time is required. A really good place to start is with Vance Dickenson's "Loudspeaker Design Cookbook"-- available online and in bookstores. The majority of topics are covered pretty well, but no actual projects are presented.
good night all
For loudspeakers please consider these:
Parts Express Magna Cum Laude
All the tough work's been done , and you can buy all the required stuff (less enclosures) from Part's Express with the click of a button. I think in the same $$ neighbourhood ( or a little cheaper when you consider the cost of good quality cross over components)as your original idea, with 2 bass drivers (12" each I think), a single mid and a single tweeter, but designed around each other. Cross over plans are on the page. Easy ordering
For an amp the choices are greater. I'd personally like to see you move towards a better quality amplifier, but if Pro sound is what you're after , perhaps a big T amp? Carver B stock is available for near the same price as a Numark, and I'm pretty sure the Carver Pro stuff is better built. A good Crown , or Behringer would probably work out nicely too. I think the price leader of these three is the Behringer. Years ago Crown had a "Micro Reference amp" that was very powerful and very good.
Without going "nuts" in the power department, just 'cause something says 1500 watts, it really isn't. Games get played regarding specifications. A good quality 250 Watter (per channel) will slay the Numark amp you linked to. Used Brystons (a minimum of a 3B is required--100 watts RMS 20-20kHz, .0015 % THD or something like that, but a 20 year , retroactive warranty available) can be used as Arc welders, so they'll push tons of current. An industry standard for over 30 years.
With a little luck you can do this , and do it well. If you don't want to build something and get used or "B " stock items then dj123 site has some amp /speaker packages that should fit the bill and many cost less than $1000. Of note is the DJ Power Pack, with good quality JBL speakers, and a powerfull Crown XLS-602 amplifier.
As far as learning all this stuff, unfortunately some time is required. A really good place to start is with Vance Dickenson's "Loudspeaker Design Cookbook"-- available online and in bookstores. The majority of topics are covered pretty well, but no actual projects are presented.
good night all
Hi,
The co-axials PM referred to are no longer available.
For $500 in parts (including the crossover) checkout :
http://www.partsexpress.com/projectshowcase/magna/index.html
I'd try this with your existing amplifier, the above has a very good
combination of decent sensitivity and very high bass power handling,
7mm xmax one way for each 12" driver is not too shabby at all, for
this type of speaker I'd say its exceptional.
(note : in the low bass the above will play 6dB louder than the
Selenium drivers posted due to the excursion, xmax being double)
If you do build it, I'd add some additional cabinet bracing.
/sreten.
The co-axials PM referred to are no longer available.
For $500 in parts (including the crossover) checkout :
http://www.partsexpress.com/projectshowcase/magna/index.html
I'd try this with your existing amplifier, the above has a very good
combination of decent sensitivity and very high bass power handling,
7mm xmax one way for each 12" driver is not too shabby at all, for
this type of speaker I'd say its exceptional.
(note : in the low bass the above will play 6dB louder than the
Selenium drivers posted due to the excursion, xmax being double)
If you do build it, I'd add some additional cabinet bracing.
/sreten.Hi Punkrok,
give us a brief. (three or four posters have asked)
Something like
I want to play music (or party or film sound effects or.....) to my friends (or to myself or to a big crowd or to ......) in a small room (or in a really big room or ..... ) tell us the size. I want it to sound nice or to have boom boom bass or back ground (very unlikely) etc.
Then you do a bit of research to develop a specification to meet the targets set in your brief. We will help you to develop the specification.
Do not start at the wrong end!!!! learn!!!!
Do not select drivers or amplifiers before the brief or specification or targeted research.
Does this brief, specification, research, ideas, develop, build model, review/evaluate remind you of anything?
It's the way everyone should develop a project (any project) and it gets taught in school, for a reason!
give us a brief. (three or four posters have asked)
Something like
I want to play music (or party or film sound effects or.....) to my friends (or to myself or to a big crowd or to ......) in a small room (or in a really big room or ..... ) tell us the size. I want it to sound nice or to have boom boom bass or back ground (very unlikely) etc.
Then you do a bit of research to develop a specification to meet the targets set in your brief. We will help you to develop the specification.
Do not start at the wrong end!!!! learn!!!!
Do not select drivers or amplifiers before the brief or specification or targeted research.
Does this brief, specification, research, ideas, develop, build model, review/evaluate remind you of anything?
It's the way everyone should develop a project (any project) and it gets taught in school, for a reason!
punk...., You still plan with multiple tweeters, allthough clearly stated several times that you should only use one
First rule....make it as simple as possible.....less and smaller/cheaper components in crossover.....better sound
With two 12" woofers you could use a midrange horn looking something like this, it goes from 1500hz to 10khz, and then ad a tweeterhorn above that - many 12" are just as good as 10" in lower midrange....simplicity....good sound
With midrange/tweeter section placed on top in a seperate caseing, you can easily make changes when you can afford the more expencive stuff
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=280-050&CFID=162958&CFTOKEN=75287687
First rule....make it as simple as possible.....less and smaller/cheaper components in crossover.....better sound
With two 12" woofers you could use a midrange horn looking something like this, it goes from 1500hz to 10khz, and then ad a tweeterhorn above that - many 12" are just as good as 10" in lower midrange....simplicity....good sound
With midrange/tweeter section placed on top in a seperate caseing, you can easily make changes when you can afford the more expencive stuff
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=280-050&CFID=162958&CFTOKEN=75287687
Hi all,
I think the concencus is the "Magna Cum, Laude" for the job.
Any further debate without some sensible feedback is pointless.
2 x12" bass, 6.5" mid, 1" tweeter, ~ 93dB/W, ~ 300W = ~ 117dB.
If thats not enough then a full professional PA design is needed.
sreten.
I think the concencus is the "Magna Cum, Laude" for the job.
Any further debate without some sensible feedback is pointless.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
2 x12" bass, 6.5" mid, 1" tweeter, ~ 93dB/W, ~ 300W = ~ 117dB.
If thats not enough then a full professional PA design is needed.
sreten.
sreten said:Hi all,
I think the concencus is the "Magna Cum, Laude" for the job.
Any further debate without some sensible feedback is pointless.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
2 x12" bass, 6.5" mid, 1" tweeter, ~ 93dB/W, ~ 300W = ~ 117dB.
If thats not enough then a full professional PA design is needed.
Damn, those look like serious party speakers.
If driving and powerful bass is what he's after then these will p**s that. Much better than that Selenium stuff he's considering and everything is already laid out and prepared.
ShinOBIWAN..
DON'T SHOOT THE KITTEN! or I'd have ta hop through the Internet and pummel ya to death...
It's very interesting that it seems that many have came to the same conclussion about the possible loudspeakers for punkrokr1701.
At 14 (no disrespect intended), I pray (or would if I believed in a higher power) that punkrokr isn't gonna play this in his bedroom--but probably will.
I've had decent equipment over the years. When my oldest daughter was 2 (she's now 24), I taught her what the volume control was, and how to use it. I never wanted my kids to be afraid of listening to music or equipment. As the kids grew older, we listened to their music on my stereo, sometimes lounder than what I would have preferrred. 8 years ago I bought my 2 kids a TEAC reference 100 "executive system" each. Both my kids still have them and use them every day.
Now punkrokr, if you are in a situation that will not allow you to actually use all of this in its intended purpose, then consider good "DJ" type headphones, and a good headphone amp. The headphone amp can be made DIY, there are lots of good inexpensive DIY plans at Head-fi
and HeadWize
Good cans will set ya back $100-200 for a "DJ" pair.
Just another option (I know way different than your big power idea), that may help keep a little peace in (I'm assuming) your parent's house.
If on the other hand you want to do the DJ "thing", and want to try it as a business or career, then disregard any of the ideas about headphones , you will need the power and you will need the speakers.
As AndrewT stated (and myself and others), determine the scope of the project, define a specification, share that with us, and perhaps more or better recommends can be made.
DON'T SHOOT THE KITTEN! or I'd have ta hop through the Internet and pummel ya to death...
It's very interesting that it seems that many have came to the same conclussion about the possible loudspeakers for punkrokr1701.
At 14 (no disrespect intended), I pray (or would if I believed in a higher power) that punkrokr isn't gonna play this in his bedroom--but probably will.
I've had decent equipment over the years. When my oldest daughter was 2 (she's now 24), I taught her what the volume control was, and how to use it. I never wanted my kids to be afraid of listening to music or equipment. As the kids grew older, we listened to their music on my stereo, sometimes lounder than what I would have preferrred. 8 years ago I bought my 2 kids a TEAC reference 100 "executive system" each. Both my kids still have them and use them every day.
Now punkrokr, if you are in a situation that will not allow you to actually use all of this in its intended purpose, then consider good "DJ" type headphones, and a good headphone amp. The headphone amp can be made DIY, there are lots of good inexpensive DIY plans at Head-fi
and HeadWize
Good cans will set ya back $100-200 for a "DJ" pair.
Just another option (I know way different than your big power idea), that may help keep a little peace in (I'm assuming) your parent's house.
If on the other hand you want to do the DJ "thing", and want to try it as a business or career, then disregard any of the ideas about headphones , you will need the power and you will need the speakers.
As AndrewT stated (and myself and others), determine the scope of the project, define a specification, share that with us, and perhaps more or better recommends can be made.
Re: ShinOBIWAN..
What? Is that supposed to make sense? Wipe ya mouth.
The young gent asked for opinions on speakers, judging by his selection of drivers and brief description of the sound he's wanting I'd say those Magna's that you first pointed out would be a great bet. This is clearly his first project and designing a 3-way XO isn't something I'd call easy. Muuh better with a kit or established design.
I really don't expect him to happy with 'phones from what's already been said.
Nanook said:
What? Is that supposed to make sense? Wipe ya mouth.
The young gent asked for opinions on speakers, judging by his selection of drivers and brief description of the sound he's wanting I'd say those Magna's that you first pointed out
would be a great bet. This is clearly his first project and designing a 3-way XO isn't something I'd call easy. Muuh better with a kit or established design.I really don't expect him to happy with 'phones from what's already been said.
ShinOBIWAN, nonsense intended.
Yes I fully expect that phones are SO far away from his intended ideas, that it is not even a consideration. Just a thought to help keep peace in his (or more likely his parent's) house unless this project "has been approved" by said parents. Trying to help keep the inter-generational peace, that's all.
I've done quite a bit of research regarding possible amplifiers, and it has been quite a while since I bought one. I am suprised at the quanity of good PA and Home gear offered on ebay and other sites that would absolutely slaughter the Numark piece Punkrokr1701 originally pointed out at $300 or less.
A big T-amp would be pretty "cool" (pardon the pun) .
Yes I fully expect that phones are SO far away from his intended ideas, that it is not even a consideration. Just a thought to help keep peace in his (or more likely his parent's) house unless this project "has been approved" by said parents. Trying to help keep the inter-generational peace, that's all.
I've done quite a bit of research regarding possible amplifiers, and it has been quite a while since I bought one. I am suprised at the quanity of good PA and Home gear offered on ebay and other sites that would absolutely slaughter the Numark piece Punkrokr1701 originally pointed out at $300 or less.
A big T-amp would be pretty "cool" (pardon the pun) .
Ok, you want a brief so here it is.
I wanna be able easily be able have my house shaking, pictures falling off the wall, doors rattling, loose stuff on the tables moving, and I wanna be able to sit on the couch and feel the pressure and vibration shake my inards loose, but at the same time I want something that you can turn up and have your friends admire as they futily try to yell over the volume. But of all things I want these to look monsterous so much that when a guest walks in the house they jump back when they see a tower of speakers taller than they are.
As for music I'll be listening to mostly rock, and I might practice playing my bass guitar through em. The main thing though is a want to have a monsterous, pushing bass that makes you feel like your being pushed backwards.
My mine goal is to have something that none else has. Unigue, that's the word, something that will blow away anything anyone I know has.
For an example I would just get a pair of these:
http://www.apogeespeakers.com/the_grand.htm
but I don't exactly have an extra $70,000 layin around
So that's my brief, yes, it's a big project for me, but I'm gonna go through with it.
I do like those Magna Cum Claude speakers , they look NICE!, but I want something that's pushes thing to the edge.
And if I haven't said this already I want to have two tweeters, two 8" mid ranges, and two woofers.
Yes, I want this to look like a PA rig.
As far as experience goes, I've built these
http://www.wadsnet.com/~dtenney/dayton_8MTM.htm
they sounded great but after a while I got bored with em so I sold them to a friend for $250 apiece after I added a modifications such as a new crossover and a side firing 8 inch powered subwoofer and it's own on-board amp.
And after I sold those off, I bought a set of white van speakers, but when I realized I was scammed I took the speaker out of the cabinet bought some good speakers for it, modified the cabinet for the speakers rebuilt the bottom section for a 10 inch subwoofer and purchased a new crossover for it.
I wanna be able easily be able have my house shaking, pictures falling off the wall, doors rattling, loose stuff on the tables moving, and I wanna be able to sit on the couch and feel the pressure and vibration shake my inards loose, but at the same time I want something that you can turn up and have your friends admire as they futily try to yell over the volume. But of all things I want these to look monsterous so much that when a guest walks in the house they jump back when they see a tower of speakers taller than they are.
As for music I'll be listening to mostly rock, and I might practice playing my bass guitar through em. The main thing though is a want to have a monsterous, pushing bass that makes you feel like your being pushed backwards.
My mine goal is to have something that none else has. Unigue, that's the word, something that will blow away anything anyone I know has.
For an example I would just get a pair of these:
http://www.apogeespeakers.com/the_grand.htm
but I don't exactly have an extra $70,000 layin around
So that's my brief, yes, it's a big project for me, but I'm gonna go through with it.
I do like those Magna Cum Claude speakers , they look NICE!, but I want something that's pushes thing to the edge.
And if I haven't said this already I want to have two tweeters, two 8" mid ranges, and two woofers.
Yes, I want this to look like a PA rig.
As far as experience goes, I've built these
http://www.wadsnet.com/~dtenney/dayton_8MTM.htm
they sounded great but after a while I got bored with em so I sold them to a friend for $250 apiece after I added a modifications such as a new crossover and a side firing 8 inch powered subwoofer and it's own on-board amp.
And after I sold those off, I bought a set of white van speakers, but when I realized I was scammed I took the speaker out of the cabinet bought some good speakers for it, modified the cabinet for the speakers rebuilt the bottom section for a 10 inch subwoofer and purchased a new crossover for it.
When you say pushes the edge, do you mean in terms of looks or are you talking about the SQ or maybe just the bass?
The Magna has a total of four 12's, that's certainly going to have the bass thing covered to at least 35hz. If your wanting to push for superb SQ and huge bass then that will cost - think $400 for the speakers plus another $400 for a sub then add the cost of amps. If your trying to come up some unique looking enclosures be sure your imagination doesn't outstrip your woodworking talents or else you'll be bitterly dissappointed, much better to have a really nice looking simple box than a complicated one that wasn't put together very well.
Using multiple tweets in a homespeaker isn't a very good idea at all, your sitting way too close and you'll get lobing issues from frequencies cancelling, this occurs because of the wavelengths being produced and how they relate to the distance between the two tweeters.
One instance where multiple tweeters are good is line arrays but these tend to use anything from 6-20 tweeters and usually ribbon tweeters at that because they allow very close placement vertically.
Well having done those will prepare you for the shock that will hit if you decide to build a 3-way and want it to sound really good.
hey, I you can find me something that will doe sthis to my house I'll be satisfied
http://www.yikers.com/video_powerful_sub_woofer.html
http://www.yikers.com/video_powerful_sub_woofer.html
punkrokr1701 said:hey, I you can find me something that will doe sthis to my house I'll be satisfied
http://www.yikers.com/video_powerful_sub_woofer.html
That's just bad taste. Is it me or does everyone else think 'w***er' when a car drives by with subs.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.