If it was me...I would consider closed with Eq
Variac, you are right about cutting lowend of 12" that low...either active or let it roll of by itself
But why have this low crossoverpoint
You must remember theese are PA bass drivers with high efficiency....not the same thing as hifi sub drivers
Variac, you are right about cutting lowend of 12" that low...either active or let it roll of by itself
But why have this low crossoverpoint
You must remember theese are PA bass drivers with high efficiency....not the same thing as hifi sub drivers
tinitus,
I don't understand you regarding the midrange. There is no way we can let it roll off by itself on the low end. It will be x-max limited I believe from what Pano says. I am also not understanding why you want to have the bass drivers go so high when the Blue wonders cross at 400 with an 8" mid , we certainly don't have to go higher with a 12" right? You seem to want to use the midrange as little as possible, I wanted to use it as much as possible because it is reputed to sound good. So, two different opinions. Since you and Pano are OK with the 500 hz lower cutoff for mids,that's fine with me, but one of the reasons to use a bigger mid driver was , for me, to have it handle the transition better to the bass. I felt that the 8" might be a little stressed down as low as 400, and I was concerned how an 18 " will sound in the 500hz mids. Not as quick as a 15" I'll bet.
NOW that Punk keeps tallking about 2 18" per side, the 400 or 500 sounds fine to me!
As far as sealed woofers, if we equalize sealed won't he need hugely powerful amps?
I don't understand you regarding the midrange. There is no way we can let it roll off by itself on the low end. It will be x-max limited I believe from what Pano says. I am also not understanding why you want to have the bass drivers go so high when the Blue wonders cross at 400 with an 8" mid , we certainly don't have to go higher with a 12" right? You seem to want to use the midrange as little as possible, I wanted to use it as much as possible because it is reputed to sound good. So, two different opinions. Since you and Pano are OK with the 500 hz lower cutoff for mids,that's fine with me, but one of the reasons to use a bigger mid driver was , for me, to have it handle the transition better to the bass. I felt that the 8" might be a little stressed down as low as 400, and I was concerned how an 18 " will sound in the 500hz mids. Not as quick as a 15" I'll bet.
NOW that Punk keeps tallking about 2 18" per side, the 400 or 500 sounds fine to me!
As far as sealed woofers, if we equalize sealed won't he need hugely powerful amps?
Damm(again).....take a look at theese little buggers....makes for "easy" crossover.....one would be a fine match fore one 18"
Now all along this we will have to care about low impedance and phase problems, which demands for very stable amps
http://www.partsexpress.com/pdf/290-401s.pdf
I know the decitions are made....just out "thinking loud"
UPS! couldnt say that
Now all along this we will have to care about low impedance and phase problems, which demands for very stable amps
http://www.partsexpress.com/pdf/290-401s.pdf
I know the decitions are made....just out "thinking loud"
UPS! couldnt say that
I just don't see sealed for the 18s. Ported is going to give him the sound he wants. (I think)
A sealed box for the mid IS the way to go. Helps it roll off some on the bottom and should sound good and clean. We don't need to get it lower than 100Hz. Sono worries.
I suggest a starting point of 400~500Hz for the crossover. With an active crosover Punkrokr can adjust it to sound the way he likes it. That's the beauty of the adjustable crossover. We don't know yet how that 18 and 12 will sound together. The variable crossover will let him find the sound HE likes.
A sealed box for the mid IS the way to go. Helps it roll off some on the bottom and should sound good and clean. We don't need to get it lower than 100Hz. Sono worries.
I suggest a starting point of 400~500Hz for the crossover. With an active crosover Punkrokr can adjust it to sound the way he likes it. That's the beauty of the adjustable crossover. We don't know yet how that 18 and 12 will sound together. The variable crossover will let him find the sound HE likes.
I understood that with the extra 18"...Punk is out of money...nothing left for active crossover
You know with double 18" there will be plenty of power in closed to keep up with the 12" ....I know how even one good big woofer sound in closed....its only a matter of having the right balance to mid/tweeter
Punkrk do know what he wants...for sure....but does he really know what it means to have all that power....in a small room.....I can remember at one occation....I literally felt as if my brain was rocking loose....and that was only for a few moment....then I was out of there....I think we dont want Punks dad blaming us for Punk wobbling down the road.....tinnitus(not me), that will be there anyway....and thats not very nice, I can tell you....
Punk is a clever kid....I guess we are allmost at the beginning where this tread started....we are only making it possible now....I am in doubt, if I should support this project at all....I think Punks health is in question here, really!
You know, like we say about motorcycles....not good to have plenty of horsepower, if you cant control your right hand !
You know with double 18" there will be plenty of power in closed to keep up with the 12" ....I know how even one good big woofer sound in closed....its only a matter of having the right balance to mid/tweeter
Punkrk do know what he wants...for sure....but does he really know what it means to have all that power....in a small room.....I can remember at one occation....I literally felt as if my brain was rocking loose....and that was only for a few moment....then I was out of there....I think we dont want Punks dad blaming us for Punk wobbling down the road.....tinnitus(not me), that will be there anyway....and thats not very nice, I can tell you....
Punk is a clever kid....I guess we are allmost at the beginning where this tread started....we are only making it possible now....I am in doubt, if I should support this project at all....I think Punks health is in question here, really!
You know, like we say about motorcycles....not good to have plenty of horsepower, if you cant control your right hand !
not quite for I can still earn the money.
well, will a sealed enclosure give me the best results around 30-50Hz? I'm still for a ported design (no offense tinitus)
lmao........
well, I can tell you one thing even though it will be tempting I'm a smart kid so it's not like I'll be sticking my head on the woofer at full blast or anything. I'll probably never get the chance to turn them up loud enough to do much because of our neighboors.
o well...
what exactly does that mean?
That means....it all started out with people try to talk you out of this monster thing....and that I guess you usually "get your way"
My sane suggestion would now be one 18" with an ALPHA 8" and an effective hifi dome tweeter with waveguide...without any need for attennuation, meaning much better sound....its all a question of balance....and not if it can be loud...belive me, it would be more than enough
More or less the "BLUE...", BUT with better drivers and better sound....and balance...and still plenty of power without ripping your last penny....so you can afford to buy music
Personally I dont care.....Its only for your own good
My sane suggestion would now be one 18" with an ALPHA 8" and an effective hifi dome tweeter with waveguide...without any need for attennuation, meaning much better sound....its all a question of balance....and not if it can be loud...belive me, it would be more than enough
More or less the "BLUE...", BUT with better drivers and better sound....and balance...and still plenty of power without ripping your last penny....so you can afford to buy music
Personally I dont care.....Its only for your own good
I think he meant that we have had lots of suggestions but have stayed with the scheme you originally approved.
I'll bet we have all wondered here at one time or another if we should be helping you what with the possible hearing damage. Like giving someone some dynamite to play with. Remember, if this comes out as clean sounding as we hope, it WON"T SOUND AS LOUD AS IT IS.
Well, let me rephrase that: Turned up it will be too loud to stand for more than a couple of seconds. BUT when you turn it down it may not sound too loud because of its low distrortion but will still be very loud. Just be careful, that's what we ask...
I'll bet we have all wondered here at one time or another if we should be helping you what with the possible hearing damage. Like giving someone some dynamite to play with. Remember, if this comes out as clean sounding as we hope, it WON"T SOUND AS LOUD AS IT IS.
Well, let me rephrase that: Turned up it will be too loud to stand for more than a couple of seconds. BUT when you turn it down it may not sound too loud because of its low distrortion but will still be very loud. Just be careful, that's what we ask...
Do you have some old receivers or amps around the house?
They will probably be plenty to experiment with even if they are 50 watts a channel or similar. I checked Craig's List here in San Francisco and there are decent amps in the $150 range with good power. Best to get them locally so you are sure the work. E-bay had better deals though. Old receivers are at my local Goodwill for $25-50. Not great, but again good to experiment with and we will tell you how to hook them up. Just tell us what you find and we'll fight each other over whether they are any good or not....
Better to get the active crossover and some cheesy receivers than no crossover. Of course no one has Behringers in stock at the moment, but Parts Express claims it will have them mid october - probably before you have the speakers done!
They will probably be plenty to experiment with even if they are 50 watts a channel or similar. I checked Craig's List here in San Francisco and there are decent amps in the $150 range with good power. Best to get them locally so you are sure the work. E-bay had better deals though. Old receivers are at my local Goodwill for $25-50. Not great, but again good to experiment with and we will tell you how to hook them up. Just tell us what you find and we'll fight each other over whether they are any good or not....
Better to get the active crossover and some cheesy receivers than no crossover. Of course no one has Behringers in stock at the moment, but Parts Express claims it will have them mid october - probably before you have the speakers done!
Actually, when playing very loud, your ears/brain turns down sensitivity....I guess for protection....and then we turn it further up....but our ears are really not protected physically just because sensitivity is turned down....especially not when we just turn it further up
Punk...right now you hate me for this....and believe me, I do understand your urge....but some day you might think otherwise...either way !
I once asked a really expert to build me THE speaker....his answer was, YES!...but he also demanded to be the one to choose drivers...and I would have no say in this....it was never build though !
I really think this project needs rethinking....but thats just me, I think !
Punk...right now you hate me for this....and believe me, I do understand your urge....but some day you might think otherwise...either way !
I once asked a really expert to build me THE speaker....his answer was, YES!...but he also demanded to be the one to choose drivers...and I would have no say in this....it was never build though !
I really think this project needs rethinking....but thats just me, I think !
Guys, trust me I am NOT gonna be blowning my eardrums by being stupid and turning some monsterous speakers up past loud enough to shake my insides in a small room. So don't worry about that. I'm a smart kid so I know how to be careful.
I don't hate you for that, I actually appreciate the gesture but like I said I won't be shattering windows anytime soon.ok?
Good.
Umm, old amps.
The only thing I have laying around is this Panasonic A/v reicever/ bi amp which is from my first system, a $200 dollar mini component system, I'm currently still use the speakers and subwoofer though. On the back is five outputs 1 for the sub, two for the woofers, and two for th tweeters and since there were no crossovers in the speaker it came with I'm guessing that the crossovers are built in the amp.
Someone was talking about cheesy recievers try saying that to one of these ! My dad recently purchased it at Audio Visions on sale for $1200! I'm thinking that will be enough power for now unttil I can get an active crossover with seperate amps for each speaker(s).
Oh and since I will eventually be moving my speaker system to my room I was thinking about using this A/V reciever , it's a good price for the power my friends dad uses one of these and I think it did pretty damn good for $500.
It works like this.....if it only sounds good when very loud....well, then its always loud....so, I guess my goal in this, is speaker that you can enjoy at low levels too...and still have a bit of that PA precense that you like...thats about it !
I guess I was carried away by the excitement too, sorry for that !
I guess I was carried away by the excitement too, sorry for that !
Punkr, those AV receivers will be great I think . I don't know much about AV stuff but as long as you have access to each amp input then you are soooooo set! That way you can plug the outputs of the crossover into each channel.
Someone reading this must be able to confirm this!
Your old little receiver is probably useless for the reason you mentioned- the crossover seeems to be hardwired into the amp section.
Someone reading this must be able to confirm this!
Your old little receiver is probably useless for the reason you mentioned- the crossover seeems to be hardwired into the amp section.
If old receiver has a single pair of pre out it could be used as a.....PREamp
BTW, this Beringer crossover.....I suppose it dont have some kind of a volume control on input
Or you could use a simple passive pre
But it begins to cost money
If you place low crossoverpoint at about 300hz....it could easily be done passive....especially when you want some extra boost.... Punk would then have time to collect some real nice amps
BTW, this Beringer crossover.....I suppose it dont have some kind of a volume control on input
Or you could use a simple passive pre
But it begins to cost money
If you place low crossoverpoint at about 300hz....it could easily be done passive....especially when you want some extra boost.... Punk would then have time to collect some real nice amps
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