The beast in question:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ATD-Gorlich-Zel...24870698QQihZ007QQcategoryZ3276QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/ATD-Gorlich-Zel...24870698QQihZ007QQcategoryZ3276QQcmdZViewItem
What's up with the way they look? It looks like someone glued crumpled up aluminum foil to an old Focal driver. Apparently, they are in "pristine" condition.
A while back I was offered to test the newer version ATD W18-4 as long as I paid shipping here and return from europe. I turned it down as that was rather expensive and I'm temporarily taking a break from testing drivers. (gotta build some projects now)
A while back I was offered to test the newer version ATD W18-4 as long as I paid shipping here and return from europe. I turned it down as that was rather expensive and I'm temporarily taking a break from testing drivers. (gotta build some projects now)
I was curious about the marks on the cone so I did some searching and one description I found of the drivers is that they are a metal foil lamenated to a foam "to be self dampening". NO idea if this is true but it makes sense. You ever make aluminum foil masks, where you put the foil down on a soft surface and "draw" on it. The foil doesn't break but you are left with lines. That could describe the flaws on the cone. As for pristine, well so's my 1994 accord. Since my odds of seeing a speaker like this in my lifetime is minimal I am just guessing. Anyone have any more information on the construction of the cone?
I don't even know for sure if these are from the same company, but I thought these were the newer version.
As used in newer Magico products:
In any case, I have my doubts that these perform any better that drivers at 1/10th the price. We'll probably never know until objective tests are run on them.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
As used in newer Magico products:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
In any case, I have my doubts that these perform any better that drivers at 1/10th the price. We'll probably never know until objective tests are run on them.
Zaph said:
It is not even pics of the actual item. Inspect and compare:
http://translate.google.com/transla...=result&prev=/search?q=zellaton+18w&hl=en&lr=
Zaph said:
These drivers obviously fall into the esoteric category where exclusivity is an important factor. I guess that someone interested in paying $100,000+ for a speaker system wouldn't be overly thrilled to find the same setup at the Joneses. No doubt these are quality drivers but like you say many more affordable drivers are probably just as good.
It even appears that ATD drivers are merely entry-level in this market segment, judging by the asking price for these from another fancy manufacturer:
http://www.phy-hp.com/English/Products/Drive_Units.html
The cheapest of those woofers sells for $950.00 US
I believe those are not the very same drivers from Magico.
I did a search on it and here's the thread:
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4792&highlight=magico
I did a search on it and here's the thread:
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4792&highlight=magico
If I'm not mistaken the german magazin HobbyHifi did a test on the ATD titanium drivers. The test for the 18 cm is also listed on the e-speakers site. The german distributor of ATD is also selling those (appr. 350 euro/pc).
The 7" used in Magico Mini is 7" AGTi( or Zellaton 3) from ATD.
The owner of ATD Mr. Joseph Szall cooperated with Mr. Goerlich since 1989 so some OEM versions of Zellaton 2 ( Goerlich units such as those used in Ensemble(Pawel Acoustics)) are actually from ATD and Urs of Ensemble is not even informed!!!
People in Taiwan are lucky enough. Mr. Joseph Szall of ATD launched his Capriccio Continuo Admonitor in Taiwan first. ( hiquphon tweeter with 5" AGTi/Zellaton 3).
As compared with US$20K Magico Mini, Admonitor is less than US$4K. To be honest, the mid-range of 5" AGTi is much much better than 7" AGTi. You could hear the "hollow" (1k to 2KHz, even the SPL is flat) in Magico Mini, where Admonitor outshines, but as goes for the bass, "size" does matter
The owner of ATD Mr. Joseph Szall cooperated with Mr. Goerlich since 1989 so some OEM versions of Zellaton 2 ( Goerlich units such as those used in Ensemble(Pawel Acoustics)) are actually from ATD and Urs of Ensemble is not even informed!!!
People in Taiwan are lucky enough. Mr. Joseph Szall of ATD launched his Capriccio Continuo Admonitor in Taiwan first. ( hiquphon tweeter with 5" AGTi/Zellaton 3).
As compared with US$20K Magico Mini, Admonitor is less than US$4K. To be honest, the mid-range of 5" AGTi is much much better than 7" AGTi. You could hear the "hollow" (1k to 2KHz, even the SPL is flat) in Magico Mini, where Admonitor outshines, but as goes for the bass, "size" does matter
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
More pics of Admonitor/Submonitor
From Audio Art
From Audio Art
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Zaph said:
I kind of agree with Zaph on this one. I suspect the thing around 1.3KHz is caused by cavity reconance from the area between the cone and the pole piece. Just recently ran into similar response in the impedance curve. You can distictively hear lost of image around that frequency range.
These ATD drivers are indeed the newer versions of the famous Podzus/Goerlich driver units. The principle of this type of cone materil is pretty old, Podszus drivers are being used since the late sixties, begin seventies. The cone is made of an extruded foam, wich looks a lot like dried self extruding wood glue and is covered on the front and back with aluminium foil. The foil is a bit rough, wich is normal for all these drivers and is not a production fault, damage by the user or wear out. The foil is hand glued. Ever tried glueing aluminium foil on a not flat surface yourself ?
I have owned several Podszus unit in the past and they where indeed pretty good back then. They where one of the very first drivers with a very stiff cone. As with all stiff cones it braks up very fast at frequency's with a golf lenght just above the piston diameter. These drivers where very unusual in the time that most compagnies where trying to avoid breakup by use of materials with very high internal damping. We all know where that aprouch has lead us, don't we. A lot of people didn't seem to like them but that was mainly because they require notch filter to filter out the breakup peaks. They are most definatly not plug and play drivers.
The Podszus/goerlich cone was the direct inspiration for the Eton hexancone drivers. Eton also used the same kind of foam in the beginning.
well I do own (and use) some Phy-HP drivers. yes they are expensive, but only build for exclusivity ? No. don't think so. In fact, in "their" market segment they are some of the "mid-priced" models out there when compared to AER, GOTO, Supravox field coil drivers, just to name a few.
I have owned several Podszus unit in the past and they where indeed pretty good back then. They where one of the very first drivers with a very stiff cone. As with all stiff cones it braks up very fast at frequency's with a golf lenght just above the piston diameter. These drivers where very unusual in the time that most compagnies where trying to avoid breakup by use of materials with very high internal damping. We all know where that aprouch has lead us, don't we. A lot of people didn't seem to like them but that was mainly because they require notch filter to filter out the breakup peaks. They are most definatly not plug and play drivers.
The Podszus/goerlich cone was the direct inspiration for the Eton hexancone drivers. Eton also used the same kind of foam in the beginning.
well I do own (and use) some Phy-HP drivers. yes they are expensive, but only build for exclusivity ? No. don't think so. In fact, in "their" market segment they are some of the "mid-priced" models out there when compared to AER, GOTO, Supravox field coil drivers, just to name a few.
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