Hello!
First i say sorry for my bad english - i hope you can understand me enough
Im in the plannig phase of a 3-Way DIY.
I have designed this System:
First i only will built up an Stereo Set-Up with these Parts:
2x Visaton W300S 8ohm
1x ATC SM75-150S
1x Seas TAF27plus
X-overs with Berhinger DCX 2496.
Power Amps Behringer Europower EP2500 - 3 pieces.
Cross overs:
400Hz with L-R 24 (if possible 48)
2,8kHz with L-R 48
The Visatons are in 40cm cubes with ~45l volume.
I already have 4 pieces in time for LFE in a SMALL konfigurated homecinema System.
They are very nice.
I also planned 40x40cm Modul for the mid- and highrange speaker - in form of a Waveguide.
I think i have to make some prototypes - but thats only costs my some time.
Problmes ist that in Austria the ATC midrange dome ist not available. (Would be nice if anyone have a pair of used domes, for me)
A very nice altenative to the Behringer DCX2496 is the lake contour 26D, but very expensive an the Delay is not accectable for a homecinema System. But for Stereo use only i can imagine - but first i will to the tests with the dcx.
I hope this will be an nice loudspeaker.
In the moment i have a ADAM art compact an ADAM P11.
Ok thats it. If anyone can give me some Tips or other help i'll be happy to hear them.
thanks
greets
schauki
First i say sorry for my bad english - i hope you can understand me enough
Im in the plannig phase of a 3-Way DIY.
I have designed this System:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
First i only will built up an Stereo Set-Up with these Parts:
2x Visaton W300S 8ohm
1x ATC SM75-150S
1x Seas TAF27plus
X-overs with Berhinger DCX 2496.
Power Amps Behringer Europower EP2500 - 3 pieces.
Cross overs:
400Hz with L-R 24 (if possible 48)
2,8kHz with L-R 48
The Visatons are in 40cm cubes with ~45l volume.
I already have 4 pieces in time for LFE in a SMALL konfigurated homecinema System.
They are very nice.
I also planned 40x40cm Modul for the mid- and highrange speaker - in form of a Waveguide.
I think i have to make some prototypes - but thats only costs my some time.
Problmes ist that in Austria the ATC midrange dome ist not available. (Would be nice if anyone have a pair of used domes, for me)
A very nice altenative to the Behringer DCX2496 is the lake contour 26D, but very expensive an the Delay is not accectable for a homecinema System. But for Stereo use only i can imagine - but first i will to the tests with the dcx.
I hope this will be an nice loudspeaker.
In the moment i have a ADAM art compact an ADAM P11.
Ok thats it. If anyone can give me some Tips or other help i'll be happy to hear them.
thanks
greets
schauki
Hi schauki,
Your design looks very good.
As I told you in another forum, I'd like to have these waveguides in a dozen.
Seriously, if you are able to get the waveguides straight, it's quite a perfect system.
It remembers me to a Genelec studio monitor the 1034BC:
Genelec uses 5" middle konus with phase plug instead of the ATC. Look at the size of the WG, it's even bigger then the 12".
As far as i know the ATC is quite rare and expensive.
But like i said, where do you wanna get these high/mid-range waveguide. I don't know any free available. I'm looking for something like that, since ages.
I guess your wg is may-be a little bit too small for a crossover at 400hz.
Looks ok so far, Genelec has the following crossover frequencies:
400Hz, 3.5 kHz
You could check the Morel 3" dome, but I don't know if its works waveguide loaded.
I guess you ran into the same trouble like i did with integrating your Sats into a DBA on the same wall?
Good design anyway. I'm particular impressed by the drawing.
cu,
teite
aka soundofsilence
schauki said:Hello!
First i say sorry for my bad english - i hope you can understand me enough
Im in the plannig phase of a 3-Way DIY.
I have designed this System:
Your design looks very good.
As I told you in another forum, I'd like to have these waveguides in a dozen.
Seriously, if you are able to get the waveguides straight, it's quite a perfect system.
It remembers me to a Genelec studio monitor the 1034BC:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Genelec uses 5" middle konus with phase plug instead of the ATC. Look at the size of the WG, it's even bigger then the 12".
As far as i know the ATC is quite rare and expensive.
But like i said, where do you wanna get these high/mid-range waveguide. I don't know any free available. I'm looking for something like that, since ages.
I guess your wg is may-be a little bit too small for a crossover at 400hz.
Looks ok so far, Genelec has the following crossover frequencies:
400Hz, 3.5 kHz
You could check the Morel 3" dome, but I don't know if its works waveguide loaded.
I guess you ran into the same trouble like i did with integrating your Sats into a DBA on the same wall?
Good design anyway. I'm particular impressed by the drawing.
cu,
teite
aka soundofsilence
Hello teite,
I've got some quotatios for all parts of the system.
The ATC dome is about 1922 Euro for 3 pieces...
The Waveguide is already a ???...
First I will built a straigth Module.
The Waveguide ist a work for the winter. I'll do some prototypes - I've enough time.
Ok - Ithink it will never be perfect as a K&H or Genelec, but over-all I "hope" there are more pros than cons.
And one thing is that K&H an Genelec doesn't look the same - I'f got some documents describing the forms, an some formulas looks good.
Some way's do built the WG:
MDF (fiberboard) milling an grinding - manual
POM (polyacetal) 3d milling - I've got access to a machine
Or to some prototyopes out of Styrodur for example and than laminate. (GFK, CFK,...glassfiber, carbonfiber)
Anyway - I'll find a way.
I'm mechancical designer, so drawing is my job.
It's not a DBA. Only a SBA - my prioritie is stereo.
The SBA will only do the LFE.
This way, I'll do a Stereo Setup first. If the result is good I'll do the center - an i think i'll buy the lake contour 26D for stereo use.
cu,
schauki (aka schauki)
I've got some quotatios for all parts of the system.
The ATC dome is about 1922 Euro for 3 pieces...
The Waveguide is already a ???...
First I will built a straigth Module.
The Waveguide ist a work for the winter. I'll do some prototypes - I've enough time.
Ok - Ithink it will never be perfect as a K&H or Genelec, but over-all I "hope" there are more pros than cons.
And one thing is that K&H an Genelec doesn't look the same - I'f got some documents describing the forms, an some formulas looks good.
Some way's do built the WG:
MDF (fiberboard) milling an grinding - manual
POM (polyacetal) 3d milling - I've got access to a machine
Or to some prototyopes out of Styrodur for example and than laminate. (GFK, CFK,...glassfiber, carbonfiber)
Anyway - I'll find a way.
I'm mechancical designer, so drawing is my job.
It's not a DBA. Only a SBA - my prioritie is stereo.
The SBA will only do the LFE.
This way, I'll do a Stereo Setup first. If the result is good I'll do the center - an i think i'll buy the lake contour 26D for stereo use.
cu,
schauki (aka schauki)
It's the same Tweeter as in the K&H O500 C - i don't think they take less than the best for their speakers....
The tweeters costs only 40 Euros, so I can change it always - if I'm not happy with it.
Technical datas are very nice... soI'll test the seas first.
Already an Isophon GWL bass driver is nice.
But ~800 Euro per stereo system is much - and in my room the W300S sounds better than for example an eton 7" HEX...
The tweeters costs only 40 Euros, so I can change it always - if I'm not happy with it.
Technical datas are very nice... soI'll test the seas first.
Already an Isophon GWL bass driver is nice.
But ~800 Euro per stereo system is much - and in my room the W300S sounds better than for example an eton 7" HEX...
schauki said:
I can't stress this enough:
If you want the best performance from the ATC mid then mate them with an ATC bass driver, or else your just throwing money away. These drivers were specifically designed to work together.
I'm speaking from cold, hard and painful experience here. I currently use the SM75-150S but was never really happy with the mid/bass integration until I switched to ATC's own SB75-234SL drivers. Onice I dropped those drivers into the design it immediately clicked and over a couple of months of tweaking the combo simply reached heights I never had with the other bass drivers I tried, including the Seas Excel W22.
I think you've got a good choice for the tweeter. I use the Scan ring radiator but its overpriced IMO, I've played with the Vifa XT25 and its not that far off for 1/5th the price. What the Scan version buys you is the ability to cross lower and a more dynamic, transparent sound.
Good luck anyway.
ShinOBIWAN said:
I've got 4 pices of Visaton W300S for the LFE.
I'm very happy with these.
An it's very easy to do the first tests with the visaton's.
I only need the mid- highrange module.
Perhaps the x-over at 400Hz could be a problem - now the x-over in the av-amp is 150Hz and works great.
Do you know the W300S??
http://www.visaton.de/de/1/19/w300s_8.html
The W250S could be an alternative.
First I'll trie the ceaper one's - but many thanks for the suggestion.
Hello again!
The System now is complete.
Waveguide make his work well.
Measurements look nice - but unter ~500Hz i can't say it, because the room makes a lot.
In summer i will make an measurement in the garden.
Here is the room:
I have to do some (many) things , like diffusors or some things for the eye. But it works.
regards
schauki
The System now is complete.
Waveguide make his work well.
Measurements look nice - but unter ~500Hz i can't say it, because the room makes a lot.
In summer i will make an measurement in the garden.
Here is the room:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I have to do some (many) things , like diffusors or some things for the eye. But it works.
regards
schauki
Here some pics:
under 500Hz there is nothig to say...
How it sound:
There are already some early reflections.
A MEG 901 or a K&H O500C in a very better room sounds better.
But this is the room.
Volumes about 110dB on hear positions are possible without
it sounds very directly.
Its hard for me to describe this in english...
If anybody want to hear the system its ok for me.
We could arrange a meeting.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
under 500Hz there is nothig to say...
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
How it sound:
There are already some early reflections.
A MEG 901 or a K&H O500C in a very better room sounds better.
But this is the room.
Volumes about 110dB on hear positions are possible without
it sounds very directly.
Its hard for me to describe this in english...
If anybody want to hear the system its ok for me.
We could arrange a meeting.
Hello!
I'm searching for a 15" driver built in a CB.
In the moment I've only one 12" driver, but the max SPL could be higher. Two 12" sound not good as one.
So i need a 15" driver wich ist able to play from 20Hz (EQ) up to ~550 Hz. Crossover between 500Hz an 550Hz, with L-R 48db/8tave.
I found the Beyma 15P1000 or der 15" PHL both are about ~400 Euro.
The isophon PSL 385/400 OEM is nice too.
If anybody has an idea, i'll be happy to hear ist.
greetings
schauki
P.S: sorry for my poor english
I'm searching for a 15" driver built in a CB.
In the moment I've only one 12" driver, but the max SPL could be higher. Two 12" sound not good as one.
So i need a 15" driver wich ist able to play from 20Hz (EQ) up to ~550 Hz. Crossover between 500Hz an 550Hz, with L-R 48db/8tave.
I found the Beyma 15P1000 or der 15" PHL both are about ~400 Euro.
The isophon PSL 385/400 OEM is nice too.
If anybody has an idea, i'll be happy to hear ist.
greetings
schauki
P.S: sorry for my poor english
Congratulations for your difficult multispeaker project. Good work.
I have technical questions: What exactly are you measuring on that ARTA screen you posted? Is it the whole system at listening distance and height? Is it MLS, or pink?
Mysterious frequency response I see. is something wrong with microphone calibration? Why not really last octave extended? What about that 580Hz dip?
I have technical questions: What exactly are you measuring on that ARTA screen you posted? Is it the whole system at listening distance and height? Is it MLS, or pink?
Mysterious frequency response I see. is something wrong with microphone calibration? Why not really last octave extended? What about that 580Hz dip?
Hello!
Last oktave not includeed because i measured with a gate.
~50cm from Mid (Seas H304).
Was a quik measurment - not good.
Here is a new ARTA measurement:
Only Mid and high.
Dispersion under 1kHz is a little bit less.
I hope it will be steady with the 15". 15" should bunch over 400Hz...
In home cinema mode it looks so:
Last oktave not includeed because i measured with a gate.
~50cm from Mid (Seas H304).
Was a quik measurment - not good.
Here is a new ARTA measurement:
Only Mid and high.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Dispersion under 1kHz is a little bit less.
I hope it will be steady with the 15". 15" should bunch over 400Hz...
In home cinema mode it looks so:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Aha, more informative. Must be sounding too direct? I see strong presence range. Can you measure with pink, driving the full system with microphone where you ears are when sitting in your favorite position? That you must take as reference. What are the different color lines mean? Different horizontal angles?
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