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Old 1st September 2006, 03:10 AM   #1
schauki is offline schauki  Austria
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Default schaukis DIY project....

Hello!
First i say sorry for my bad english - i hope you can understand me enough

Im in the plannig phase of a 3-Way DIY.

I have designed this System:
Click the image to open in full size.

First i only will built up an Stereo Set-Up with these Parts:
2x Visaton W300S 8ohm
1x ATC SM75-150S
1x Seas TAF27plus

X-overs with Berhinger DCX 2496.
Power Amps Behringer Europower EP2500 - 3 pieces.

Cross overs:
400Hz with L-R 24 (if possible 48)
2,8kHz with L-R 48

The Visatons are in 40cm cubes with ~45l volume.
I already have 4 pieces in time for LFE in a SMALL konfigurated homecinema System.
They are very nice.

I also planned 40x40cm Modul for the mid- and highrange speaker - in form of a Waveguide.
I think i have to make some prototypes - but thats only costs my some time.

Problmes ist that in Austria the ATC midrange dome ist not available. (Would be nice if anyone have a pair of used domes, for me)


A very nice altenative to the Behringer DCX2496 is the lake contour 26D, but very expensive an the Delay is not accectable for a homecinema System. But for Stereo use only i can imagine - but first i will to the tests with the dcx.

I hope this will be an nice loudspeaker.
In the moment i have a ADAM art compact an ADAM P11.


Ok thats it. If anyone can give me some Tips or other help i'll be happy to hear them.

thanks

greets
schauki
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Old 2nd September 2006, 05:41 AM   #2
teite is offline teite  Germany
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Default Re: schaukis DIY project....

Hi schauki,

Quote:
Originally posted by schauki
[B]Hello!
First i say sorry for my bad english - i hope you can understand me enough

Im in the plannig phase of a 3-Way DIY.

I have designed this System:
Your design looks very good.
As I told you in another forum, I'd like to have these waveguides in a dozen.

Seriously, if you are able to get the waveguides straight, it's quite a perfect system.

It remembers me to a Genelec studio monitor the 1034BC:


Click the image to open in full size.


Genelec uses 5" middle konus with phase plug instead of the ATC. Look at the size of the WG, it's even bigger then the 12".

As far as i know the ATC is quite rare and expensive.

But like i said, where do you wanna get these high/mid-range waveguide. I don't know any free available. I'm looking for something like that, since ages.

Quote:
Cross overs:
400Hz with L-R 24 (if possible 48)
I guess your wg is may-be a little bit too small for a crossover at 400hz.

Quote:
2,8kHz with L-R 48
Looks ok so far, Genelec has the following crossover frequencies:
400Hz, 3.5 kHz

Quote:
Problmes ist that in Austria the ATC midrange dome ist not available. (Would be nice if anyone have a pair of used domes, for me)
You could check the Morel 3" dome, but I don't know if its works waveguide loaded.

I guess you ran into the same trouble like i did with integrating your Sats into a DBA on the same wall?

Good design anyway. I'm particular impressed by the drawing.

cu,
teite
aka soundofsilence
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Old 2nd September 2006, 10:35 AM   #3
schauki is offline schauki  Austria
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Hello teite,

I've got some quotatios for all parts of the system.
The ATC dome is about 1922 Euro for 3 pieces...

The Waveguide is already a ???...
First I will built a straigth Module.

The Waveguide ist a work for the winter. I'll do some prototypes - I've enough time.
Ok - Ithink it will never be perfect as a K&H or Genelec, but over-all I "hope" there are more pros than cons.

And one thing is that K&H an Genelec doesn't look the same - I'f got some documents describing the forms, an some formulas looks good.
Some way's do built the WG:
MDF (fiberboard) milling an grinding - manual
POM (polyacetal) 3d milling - I've got access to a machine

Or to some prototyopes out of Styrodur for example and than laminate. (GFK, CFK,...glassfiber, carbonfiber)

Anyway - I'll find a way.


I'm mechancical designer, so drawing is my job.



It's not a DBA. Only a SBA - my prioritie is stereo.
The SBA will only do the LFE.
This way, I'll do a Stereo Setup first. If the result is good I'll do the center - an i think i'll buy the lake contour 26D for stereo use.

cu,

schauki (aka schauki)
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Old 2nd September 2006, 02:21 PM   #4
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Wow, very ambitious, why the Seas tweeter? If you're going to lay down the money for the ATC domes why not go ahead and get the Scan-Speak ring radiator tweeters as well?
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Old 2nd September 2006, 05:49 PM   #5
schauki is offline schauki  Austria
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It's the same Tweeter as in the K&H O500 C - i don't think they take less than the best for their speakers....

The tweeters costs only 40 Euros, so I can change it always - if I'm not happy with it.
Technical datas are very nice... soI'll test the seas first.

Already an Isophon GWL bass driver is nice.
But ~800 Euro per stereo system is much - and in my room the W300S sounds better than for example an eton 7" HEX...
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Old 3rd September 2006, 12:05 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by schauki
It's the same Tweeter as in the K&H O500 C - i don't think they take less than the best for their speakers....

The tweeters costs only 40 Euros, so I can change it always - if I'm not happy with it.
Technical datas are very nice... soI'll test the seas first.

Already an Isophon GWL bass driver is nice.
But ~800 Euro per stereo system is much - and in my room the W300S sounds better than for example an eton 7" HEX...
I can't stress this enough:

If you want the best performance from the ATC mid then mate them with an ATC bass driver, or else your just throwing money away. These drivers were specifically designed to work together.

I'm speaking from cold, hard and painful experience here. I currently use the SM75-150S but was never really happy with the mid/bass integration until I switched to ATC's own SB75-234SL drivers. Onice I dropped those drivers into the design it immediately clicked and over a couple of months of tweaking the combo simply reached heights I never had with the other bass drivers I tried, including the Seas Excel W22.

I think you've got a good choice for the tweeter. I use the Scan ring radiator but its overpriced IMO, I've played with the Vifa XT25 and its not that far off for 1/5th the price. What the Scan version buys you is the ability to cross lower and a more dynamic, transparent sound.

Good luck anyway.
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Old 3rd September 2006, 03:50 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by m0tion
Wow, very ambitious, why the Seas tweeter? If you're going to lay down the money for the ATC domes why not go ahead and get the Scan-Speak ring radiator tweeters as well?
More expensive is not always synonymous with more suitable
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Old 3rd September 2006, 12:38 PM   #8
schauki is offline schauki  Austria
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Quote:
Originally posted by ShinOBIWAN


I can't stress this enough:

If you want the best performance from the ATC mid then mate them with an ATC bass driver, or else your just throwing money away. These drivers were specifically designed to work together.

I'm speaking from cold, hard and painful experience here. I currently use the SM75-150S but was never really happy with the mid/bass integration until I switched to ATC's own SB75-234SL drivers. Onice I dropped those drivers into the design it immediately clicked and over a couple of months of tweaking the combo simply reached heights I never had with the other bass drivers I tried, including the Seas Excel W22......
I've got 4 pices of Visaton W300S for the LFE.
I'm very happy with these.
An it's very easy to do the first tests with the visaton's.
I only need the mid- highrange module.

Perhaps the x-over at 400Hz could be a problem - now the x-over in the av-amp is 150Hz and works great.

Do you know the W300S??
http://www.visaton.de/de/1/19/w300s_8.html
The W250S could be an alternative.

First I'll trie the ceaper one's - but many thanks for the suggestion.
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Old 6th January 2007, 01:41 PM   #9
schauki is offline schauki  Austria
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Hello again!

The System now is complete.

Waveguide make his work well.
Measurements look nice - but unter ~500Hz i can't say it, because the room makes a lot.
In summer i will make an measurement in the garden.

Here is the room:
Click the image to open in full size.

I have to do some (many) things , like diffusors or some things for the eye. But it works.

regards

schauki
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Old 6th January 2007, 02:25 PM   #10
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very impressive,have anymore pics?tell us how they sound.i guess you not giving auditions to fellow diyers.im in vienna at the moment.
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