Hi Guys,
I have been reading over this site for a long time and have learn alot, but i think if anything it has made me even more confused as i now know enough to be slightly dangerous - and ask even more questions
Basically what i am after is some help in designing a new set of main speakers. A little bit of extra info that may help:
1. Currently i have a very old set of B&W v202 which i bought in (i think) about 1992. I think they have been great but its time to upgrade. They are a ported 2 way with what looks to be about a 6" driver.
2. They will be used for probably 90% stereo music, and the other 10% for movies as the front main left and right speakers.
3. They will be driven by a Cambridge Audio Azur 540R Amp.
4. I already have a sub setup which is a set of dual 10" in a big ported box. I built this entirely myself and i think it is sensational, it literally shakes the next door neighbours shed door (probably 30m away) whenever i have music/movies up at a decent volume.
5. i listen to mainly electronic music (yeah i know i know) haha
What i am after is something to replace the B&W. I wanted a set of speakers upstairs so i figured i would move them up there and get something new and better for the living room.
Building the boxes to the right dimensions isnt a problem for me, but what is proving to be hard is finding a nice driver/tweeter combination that will server me well and get some matching crossovers for them! From all my research it seems as though there is a huge amount of importance on the crossover design.
So this is where i need some help. Just as a comparison i have been looking at the Seas THOR design and have read alot of good info on them. Their drivers seem to get really great reviews. I have noticed that there is a kit available from madisound.com that will give you the drivers and crossovers. Is this a good option under my circumstances? All the reviews i have read say they have a heap of bass, but do i need this when i already have my sub - is it over kill and a waste of money? Is there something that will do the job better? Would i be better off going for something that is more mid range/ top end focused? I would like to keep the whole bill under about $2k Australian, but obviously want the best possible sound for my money (who doesnt).
Would really appreciate any and all suggestions - and feel free to hit me up for more info if i havent provided enough.
Really appreciate it guys!
Timbo
I have been reading over this site for a long time and have learn alot, but i think if anything it has made me even more confused as i now know enough to be slightly dangerous - and ask even more questions
Basically what i am after is some help in designing a new set of main speakers. A little bit of extra info that may help:
1. Currently i have a very old set of B&W v202 which i bought in (i think) about 1992. I think they have been great but its time to upgrade. They are a ported 2 way with what looks to be about a 6" driver.
2. They will be used for probably 90% stereo music, and the other 10% for movies as the front main left and right speakers.
3. They will be driven by a Cambridge Audio Azur 540R Amp.
4. I already have a sub setup which is a set of dual 10" in a big ported box. I built this entirely myself and i think it is sensational, it literally shakes the next door neighbours shed door (probably 30m away) whenever i have music/movies up at a decent volume.
5. i listen to mainly electronic music (yeah i know i know) haha
What i am after is something to replace the B&W. I wanted a set of speakers upstairs so i figured i would move them up there and get something new and better for the living room.
Building the boxes to the right dimensions isnt a problem for me, but what is proving to be hard is finding a nice driver/tweeter combination that will server me well and get some matching crossovers for them! From all my research it seems as though there is a huge amount of importance on the crossover design.
So this is where i need some help. Just as a comparison i have been looking at the Seas THOR design and have read alot of good info on them. Their drivers seem to get really great reviews. I have noticed that there is a kit available from madisound.com that will give you the drivers and crossovers. Is this a good option under my circumstances? All the reviews i have read say they have a heap of bass, but do i need this when i already have my sub - is it over kill and a waste of money? Is there something that will do the job better? Would i be better off going for something that is more mid range/ top end focused? I would like to keep the whole bill under about $2k Australian, but obviously want the best possible sound for my money (who doesnt).
Would really appreciate any and all suggestions - and feel free to hit me up for more info if i havent provided enough.
Really appreciate it guys!
Timbo
First thoughts.
Kits, or well researched complete projects are a good start, but research is the key in finding what you want. The Thors seem to get good reviews, but I haven't heard them, so I can't give you a personal opinion.
Don't blow your 2K budget on the first attempt. Pick something simple and straightforward, just to see how you get on with the hobby. There are lots of good designs that will only cost a couple of hundred bucks, and give you a good feel for what can be done.
Kits, or well researched complete projects are a good start, but research is the key in finding what you want. The Thors seem to get good reviews, but I haven't heard them, so I can't give you a personal opinion.
Don't blow your 2K budget on the first attempt. Pick something simple and straightforward, just to see how you get on with the hobby. There are lots of good designs that will only cost a couple of hundred bucks, and give you a good feel for what can be done.
pinkmouse said:
Thanks for your reply. I understand on what your saying and i guess my logic is to "build it once, build it right", so hence my reason for wanting to get something pretty top-notch straight up.
Can you make any suggestions on kits/designs that you mention are around a few hundred bucks?
Hi,
You wont go too far wrong with sealed versions of these for use with your subwoofer :
http://www.zaphaudio.com/audio-speaker17.html
Sensitivity is not as high as the B&Ws.
/sreten.
http://www.bwspeakers.com/downloadFile/speakermodel/DONE_-V201-V202-V203-V204_manual.pdf
You wont go too far wrong with sealed versions of these for use with your subwoofer :
http://www.zaphaudio.com/audio-speaker17.html
Sensitivity is not as high as the B&Ws.
/sreten.http://www.bwspeakers.com/downloadFile/speakermodel/DONE_-V201-V202-V203-V204_manual.pdf
sreten said:
I was actually looking over that web site earlier today and these guys caught my eye:
http://www.zaphaudio.com/audio-speaker17.html
They mentioned that you can run it as a sealed version by:
"This speaker can be built in a sealed configuration if required. If you wish to do that, you can use a smaller box size - But the baffle dimensions and driver locations must be preserved. Decrease box size by decreasing depth. Or, you could just go for a low Q rolloff and keep the box the same size but make it sealed. Why would you need sealed? Well, when using an active subwoofer crossover, integration does not neccessarily happen any easier with a sealed enclosure. But depending on room setup, you may however wish to tune midbass response by adjusting sealed Q."
How do you think that would fit into the big scheme of things?
Tim
PS: i cant belive you found documentation on my old B&W's!! the net never ceases to amaze me.....
Hi,
I don't exactly agree with the integration waffle about sealed
boxes, may be true for smaller speakers and using AV receivers
with built in bass management features, but certainly not hifi
amplifiers.
For HiFi amplifiers the main speakers are run unfiltered, sealed box
loading prevents sub overload and gives good room integration.
The subwoofer is then used to to blend in low frequencies, the
crossover point is not necessarily the speakers roll-off, depends
on room gain.
/sreten.
I don't exactly agree with the integration waffle about sealed
boxes, may be true for smaller speakers and using AV receivers
with built in bass management features, but certainly not hifi
amplifiers.
For HiFi amplifiers the main speakers are run unfiltered, sealed box
loading prevents sub overload and gives good room integration.
The subwoofer is then used to to blend in low frequencies, the
crossover point is not necessarily the speakers roll-off, depends
on room gain.
/sreten.Timbo said:
If I were you I'd order my parts from an Australian DIY supplier. Not that I have anything against Madisound, quite the opposite, but ordering from the US means that a substantial portion of your budget will be spent on shipping fees, Customs duties and unfavorable currency exchange.
And before anyone complains about my being biased against our neighbors I will also advise you not to order from Canada for the exact same reasons.
Timbo,
Check out this web site run by a fellow Australian:
http://users.tpg.com.au/users/gradds/
I am sure he can give some good advice and it will be based on drivers available in your country.
Check out this web site run by a fellow Australian:
http://users.tpg.com.au/users/gradds/
I am sure he can give some good advice and it will be based on drivers available in your country.
Timbo, I went rather cheap with these, as they are my first set, and i learnt a LOT. I used 16mm MDF from Bunnings, two sheets 1200x600mm (I had this cut by a teacher at my high school). for the drivers I used 8" woofers from Altronics.com.au (I can give you cat# if you need) and 19mm vifa tweeters from Speakerbits.com.au. I used cheap, iron-on Radiata Pine Veneer from Bunnings to cover them (ConsolidatedVeneers or something). I also used premade crossovers (probably a bad idea), but it turned out ok, if you have any soldering expeience I would say that making your own is a good idea
All came in around $300, later I will add some more detail, no time now.
All this is driven by an Rotel RA1000 40wrms/2 amp (ebay $180, probably paid too much), which hisses a bit.
Cheers, Nic.
All came in around $300, later I will add some more detail, no time now.
All this is driven by an Rotel RA1000 40wrms/2 amp (ebay $180, probably paid too much), which hisses a bit.
Cheers, Nic.
Attachments
Hey Nic,
Thanks for taking the time to reply mate!
Just a few questions:
-Did you base this speaker on a pre-existing design? I mean the driver/tweeter combination?
-How did you work out the box size?
-Have you compared these to any "brand name" speakers to judge their quality?
-What did you base the purchase of your crossover design on?
What i am leaning towards is trying to find a nice deign somewhere on the net (which i have found lots of) with a proven combination of driver/tweeters, and all the details for box volume and crossover specs. I am by no means an expert in any of this stuff and really dont have the equipment or knowledge to start tuning and playing with bits and pieces like that, so i feel it would be suicide to go it on my own and try to design something from scratch.
I am very handy with building the boxes and soldering things up, thats no problem, so hence why i was looking at a kit of some form where i can build all the bits myself but base it all on a proven design. I would hate to spend money and time on something that is a dissapointment in the end.
One that i have heard really great reports on is this thing:
Acapella SE
I think they look sensational and from all accounts they appear to be the builders "reference" speaker.
Would this be overkill for me seeing as though i already have the bass-side covered with my 2x10" subs? Can i build a cut down version of this?
Sorry for the long list of questions, but if you dont ask you dont know, and as i said i am a little tentative to go this alone due to my lack of knowledge in this area.
Thanks again,
Timbo
Thanks for taking the time to reply mate!
Just a few questions:
-Did you base this speaker on a pre-existing design? I mean the driver/tweeter combination?
-How did you work out the box size?
-Have you compared these to any "brand name" speakers to judge their quality?
-What did you base the purchase of your crossover design on?
What i am leaning towards is trying to find a nice deign somewhere on the net (which i have found lots of) with a proven combination of driver/tweeters, and all the details for box volume and crossover specs. I am by no means an expert in any of this stuff and really dont have the equipment or knowledge to start tuning and playing with bits and pieces like that, so i feel it would be suicide to go it on my own and try to design something from scratch.
I am very handy with building the boxes and soldering things up, thats no problem, so hence why i was looking at a kit of some form where i can build all the bits myself but base it all on a proven design. I would hate to spend money and time on something that is a dissapointment in the end.
One that i have heard really great reports on is this thing:
Acapella SE
I think they look sensational and from all accounts they appear to be the builders "reference" speaker.
Would this be overkill for me seeing as though i already have the bass-side covered with my 2x10" subs? Can i build a cut down version of this?
Sorry for the long list of questions, but if you dont ask you dont know, and as i said i am a little tentative to go this alone due to my lack of knowledge in this area.
Thanks again,
Timbo
I made the design pretty much from scratch, I just had mild basings in some designs I saw (of rough shape and tweeter offest) I used a program called BlauBox to design in, rather basic, but gets the job done (I can email it to you if you life, although if you ask other members here i'm sure they could point out a better program). The combination of RedBack woofer and Vifa tweeter was purely based on price and availability, they also looked like reasnoble quality to me (I didn't want to pour $$$ into my first design, as I was mainly planning to learn a lot, which I did, and I still got good sound.)
On the camparing them to other speakers front, I really only have an old pair of Hitachis (which they beat the Hell out of) a 30 year old pair of Interdyns (Which they beat) and a set of 3way Jensens (about 20yrs old, my speakers are around these ones. The bass in the Jensens is stronger, because I had to compromise a bit on volume when I made them, as I did not want floorstanders.) I have listened to some Wharfedale $1000 3way floorstanders and they are around their quality.
For the crossovers, I wanted an xover freq of about 3500hz, so the ones I got were about that. I would strongly reccomend you make your own crossovers, just ask around the forums and I'm sure you'll find a good xover design program.
Finding a design on the net sounds like a great idea, they should be sound and tried. Just make sure you can source the drivers. And as you said, they will be a good combo of tweeter/woofer. Make sure you find a good'un, mabye ask around here.
If you can afford it, the Acapella SE looks good. As long as you can make it well, don't dive in the deep end too early. from what ive read, i think "reference" speakers are meant to be good?
As i've said before, I don't use subs with music, so I wont comment too much on this. Just make sure the subs are good quality, or you can get horrible distortion. I would ask around the forums for an answer to this.
I don't mind helping others, as forum members here have been very helpful to me, I though i'd pass some knowledge on. Hope this helps.
Cheers, Nic.
On the camparing them to other speakers front, I really only have an old pair of Hitachis (which they beat the Hell out of) a 30 year old pair of Interdyns (Which they beat) and a set of 3way Jensens (about 20yrs old, my speakers are around these ones. The bass in the Jensens is stronger, because I had to compromise a bit on volume when I made them, as I did not want floorstanders.) I have listened to some Wharfedale $1000 3way floorstanders and they are around their quality.
For the crossovers, I wanted an xover freq of about 3500hz, so the ones I got were about that. I would strongly reccomend you make your own crossovers, just ask around the forums and I'm sure you'll find a good xover design program.
Finding a design on the net sounds like a great idea, they should be sound and tried. Just make sure you can source the drivers. And as you said, they will be a good combo of tweeter/woofer. Make sure you find a good'un, mabye ask around here.
If you can afford it, the Acapella SE looks good. As long as you can make it well, don't dive in the deep end too early. from what ive read, i think "reference" speakers are meant to be good?
As i've said before, I don't use subs with music, so I wont comment too much on this. Just make sure the subs are good quality, or you can get horrible distortion. I would ask around the forums for an answer to this.
I don't mind helping others, as forum members here have been very helpful to me, I though i'd pass some knowledge on. Hope this helps.
Cheers, Nic.
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