I want to make a small research among us.
Do you prefer to evaluate a speaker prototype as a single or a stereo pair?
Stereo has comb filtering issues, more reflections, but more even room modes (LF) and is closer to what is going to be asked to do.
But there is HT and there is semi pro which may need multiple speakers. Single speaker evaluation is nearer to measuring and more absolute.
What is your preference and why?
Do you prefer to evaluate a speaker prototype as a single or a stereo pair?
Stereo has comb filtering issues, more reflections, but more even room modes (LF) and is closer to what is going to be asked to do.
But there is HT and there is semi pro which may need multiple speakers. Single speaker evaluation is nearer to measuring and more absolute.
What is your preference and why?
I now listen in stereo and measure in mono.
I do both nearfield measurements of individual drivers with and without cross-overs. Room measurements I do in mono at 1M, 2M or further away. (listening position)
Impedance magnitude change with frequency measurements coming soon.
I am still learning how to do meaningful measurements, how to interprete the results, and what I think I should do once I have identified what I think is an issue.
I rely on a combination of measurements and my own auditory preferences to determine whether I need to make changes.
I have no "instinct" for what is right, and want to educate myself about how what I measure relates to what I hear.
I listen with my ears and measure with instruments, not vice versa.
I designed and built my current speaker system from the ground up.
Acoustically speaking I am a beginner, wet behind the ears, a newbie ...
I do both nearfield measurements of individual drivers with and without cross-overs. Room measurements I do in mono at 1M, 2M or further away. (listening position)
Impedance magnitude change with frequency measurements coming soon.
I am still learning how to do meaningful measurements, how to interprete the results, and what I think I should do once I have identified what I think is an issue.
I rely on a combination of measurements and my own auditory preferences to determine whether I need to make changes.
I have no "instinct" for what is right, and want to educate myself about how what I measure relates to what I hear.
I listen with my ears and measure with instruments, not vice versa.
I designed and built my current speaker system from the ground up.
Acoustically speaking I am a beginner, wet behind the ears, a newbie ...
Do you find that you tend to readjust your speakers when you judge em in stereo?
Comb filtering between channels is one issue since our ears have distance (hopefully not empty) between them plus complex shadowing and pinna effects.
Maybe the shortage of mono program maybe is the sole cause.
I like to listen to pink noise in single mode first. Then pink noise in double mono, and when the central phantom is right after positioning experiments I continue with stereo program.
I have made speakers that I prefered to adjust solo than stereo which proved better when in pairs in unexpected rooms.
I am afraid of combinining certain domestic spaces in the equasion.
This is an issue that I have not seen being touched in general.
More opinions, expertise?
Comb filtering between channels is one issue since our ears have distance (hopefully not empty) between them plus complex shadowing and pinna effects.
Maybe the shortage of mono program maybe is the sole cause.
I like to listen to pink noise in single mode first. Then pink noise in double mono, and when the central phantom is right after positioning experiments I continue with stereo program.
I have made speakers that I prefered to adjust solo than stereo which proved better when in pairs in unexpected rooms.
I am afraid of combinining certain domestic spaces in the equasion.
This is an issue that I have not seen being touched in general.
More opinions, expertise?
Salas,
Just for example. My friend have a pair of Mirage M1si. How do they sound?
Depends from your criteria.
In terms of SOUND they are good: fast, punchy, dynamics,etc.
Maybe you can correlate your measurements with this . A bit loudness
maybe, but a great sound.
But in terms of "imaging" , localisation, reltive size of the instruments,
etc I must classified as poor, not credible. And this IMHO is not acceptable . This is IMHO the issue.
With only one M1 (in mono), what can you listen?
A "perfect" sound.
I hope I am sufficient comprensible.
Inertial
Just for example. My friend have a pair of Mirage M1si. How do they sound?
Depends from your criteria.
In terms of SOUND they are good: fast, punchy, dynamics,etc.
Maybe you can correlate your measurements with this . A bit loudness
maybe, but a great sound.
But in terms of "imaging" , localisation, reltive size of the instruments,
etc I must classified as poor, not credible. And this IMHO is not acceptable . This is IMHO the issue.
With only one M1 (in mono), what can you listen?
A "perfect" sound.
I hope I am sufficient comprensible.
Inertial
Salas,
I ALWAYS listen both ways when evaluating a new speaker. I find it much easier to hear exactly what a speaker is doing by listening to a single speaker. Of course listening in stereo is important too, but the stereo illusion itself can mask problems that are readily apparent when listening to just one.
I ALWAYS listen both ways when evaluating a new speaker. I find it much easier to hear exactly what a speaker is doing by listening to a single speaker. Of course listening in stereo is important too, but the stereo illusion itself can mask problems that are readily apparent when listening to just one.
Interesting issue
I often find small adjustments in crossover have influence on imaging and soundstage and in particular focus
You cant judge that in mono, I have tried and it always changes when I listen in stereo afterwards - like Svante said, "you measure in mono", and I guess there is no other way
Question is if a perfect stereo pair is different from the one which measure perfect in mono, and when, in which way
BTW, I sure would know how to measure a bipole or dipole like MIRAGE or others of the kind
I often find small adjustments in crossover have influence on imaging and soundstage and in particular focus
You cant judge that in mono, I have tried and it always changes when I listen in stereo afterwards - like Svante said, "you measure in mono", and I guess there is no other way
Question is if a perfect stereo pair is different from the one which measure perfect in mono, and when, in which way
BTW, I sure would know how to measure a bipole or dipole like MIRAGE or others of the kind
Well, what I actually think is that a speakers ability to reproduce soundstage, imaging and focus on soloists must be phase related
Actually wouldnt there be a phase problem between left and right
I mean they are so far apart, which in normal terms would lead to phase issues - maybe one have "cheat" on this part
Actually wouldnt there be a phase problem between left and right
I mean they are so far apart, which in normal terms would lead to phase issues - maybe one have "cheat" on this part
Member
Joined 2003
For all measurements mono (outdoors if practical). For initial voicing, mono because it is quicker and easier to spot major issues. For final voicing, always stereo because it is more revealing of subtle performance issues like soundstage and imaging. Partway through the process, I may switch back and forth between mono and stereo, depending on what I'm hearing.
Hi again Salas,
You are right about peculiarity of image due to bipolar radiation.
But I have serious doubt about how they
can sound in the "headquarters".
My friend have a big room and we have spent long time in
positioning the M1 . Are 2 metres from rear wall sufficient?
We have tried also 2,5 metres but .....nada!
I think they image exactly so.
Subjectivaly an Avalon , Thiel, Manger are another world.
Excuse me for the OT.
Cheers,
Inertial
You are right about peculiarity of image due to bipolar radiation.
But I have serious doubt about how they
can sound in the "headquarters".
My friend have a big room and we have spent long time in
positioning the M1 . Are 2 metres from rear wall sufficient?
We have tried also 2,5 metres but .....nada!
I think they image exactly so.
Subjectivaly an Avalon , Thiel, Manger are another world.
Excuse me for the OT.
Cheers,
Inertial
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