104mm Round Tweeter Replacement

juz400 · 2nd August 2006, 12:12 PM

Hi there,

I have a pair of 2way speakers that Ive had for around 6 years
Yesterday I replace the Focal 7N515 bass units with Focal 7W4411 units which Im pleased with

Now I think I need to replace the tweeters too.
they are 104mm round, with four fixing holes. I have no idea who made them as they only have a sticker saying `THAME` on the magnets which comes up with nothing useful on the net.

They are similar to the following:
Vifa D27TG-35-06
Seas 25TNF
Peerless HDS type 810921

Now they HAVE to be 104mm round, the cabinets are NOT made of wood and the mount is recessed for a flush fit.

Could anyone recomend me a pair of tweeters that will marry up with the Focals? I have a budget of upto £200

I am running them with a NaimAudio NAC92/NAP90.3 setup, I should receive another NAP90.3 soon to Bi-Amp them to start with, hopefully going on to a MOX active setup.

Many thanks in advance!

angsuman · 2nd August 2006, 04:07 PM

Are you looking to also change the cross-over too? since it seems thats what you'd need to do since finding a suitable "drop-in" might be hard.
Why are you replacing the tweeters? are they blown? Or are you trying to upgrade by trying a different tweeter. So I assume these 2-way speakers are of the Focal brand? If so shouldn't it be a focal tweeter in there.

The three tweeters you've mentioned i'm not sure what the best match would be but from the performance graphs it seems that the Peerless HDS would be the best tweeter since it has the lowest distortion of the three.

BobEllis · 2nd August 2006, 04:30 PM

Seas 27TDFC and 27TBFC/G come to mind - inexpensive but excellent performers.

Glad to see that you understand the new drivers are not likely to be drop in replacements. How do the W cone Focals measure compared to the N cones? I like the W cones - I'm using 6W4254s with Focal TC120-TD5s and another with Fountek JP3s.

If you need active crossover boards (MOX like fixed filters plus EQ and phase correction) see the group buy Here

noodle_snacks · 2nd August 2006, 10:26 PM

I believe most of the tweeters from seas, peerless, vifa (peerless vline, whatever) and scanspeak come with a 104mm faceplate diameter. More information about the focal's in box response etc would allow people to advise you of a tweeter choice more easily. I personally do not know anything about this woofer.

juz400 · 3rd August 2006, 08:02 AM

Many thanks for your replies!

Angusman:

I have no idea if they are Focal, no indication of manufactor on them other than the pricetag sticker with `THAME`. one is slightly damaged, not quite blown.

Bobellis:

The general construction of the N and W are much the same, the N having a cone thickness about double that of the W and a heavier magnet.
Sound wise, Woah! what a difference! Bass still has a snappy thump to it, further up the range the speaker is so much clearer and cleaner, much more precise imaging! (almost makes my dolby pro logic decoder redundant!)

Noodle snacks:

Im have no idea of the in box response, The cabinets are a kind of pryamid shape with a rounded top, roughly 18L I think. (Sorry no digi camera for nice piccys)
are the microphones to measure response expensive? I have a fairly decent PC, so messing around with that kind of kit could be intresting and fun!!

Really, I want to kinda update the speakers overall, Im sure the response of a more modern tweeter would be a better match with the modernish Focal mid/bass driver

I am intrested in the group buy thingy for the MOX crossovers but I dont have paypal or creditcard typa stuff! I have some of the transistors already from another project, where(Someone in the UK!) is a good place to get the 2SK or LSK opamps?
Thanks again!

BobEllis · 3rd August 2006, 08:48 AM

Looking at the response on the Focal Data Sheet I'd suggest using a tweeter that can handle 1200 Hz or so. That seems to be where the first cone mode is (the bobble in the FR and impedance curves). The Dayton RS28 with a 4th order XO would be a good choice if you could enlarge your opening to 105mm.

If you don't want to mess with new cabinets, consider the Seas 27TDFC crossed at 1500 Hz. with a high order filter - 4th order or Cauer-Elliptic. The tweeter ought to handle that just fine, and it would clean up the woofer's top end.

If you go higher or lower order, a notch filter for the woofer's peak is important. My preference is to keep that breakup peak 30+ dB below the summed response. This usually means 4th order and a notch with modern hard cone drivers.

If you can find a Panasonic WM-61 microphone capsule, you can make a fairly accurate measurement system with an opamp and a few other parts inexpensively.

PM me to work out payment arrangements if you want the group buy boards without paypal.

erickalan77 · 26th June 2011, 08:49 AM

I know this is a really old post . . .do you still have and want to sell those 7N515 ? Don't listen to this guy about a node ( break up/resonance )at 1-2k just about every speaker made over 5" has a resonance at 1k...even the venerable p15wh-00.
base your cross overs on the resonance that lies above 1K around 5k for most drivers lower with paper, viscious with Kevlar. . . and for the Kevlar/fiberglass W cones. . .fourth order at 3k on both your tweeters and woofers....remember to overlap the crossover point to get a -3db crossover point (fourth order are -6db at crossover freq)...then they sum to 0db . . ..

~e~

Boscoe · 26th June 2011, 08:59 AM

Monacor DT-254?

juz400 · 26th June 2011, 12:32 PM

I got a couple MiniDSP 2x4 units this year, using the two Naim Nap90/3`s running the Left and Right speakers from thier own Amp rather than one for LF and one for HF.
Im still using the original tweeters.

Going active has been a revelation! HF detail I never knew was there at all!
Piano`s sound wonderful now!

Im still looking to change the tweeters to see If I can get any more improvment

leaning towards the Seas 27TDFC
but If anyone else has suggestions for 104mm Diameter HF units, Im all ears :P
erickalan77:
I do still have the 7N515 drive units but shipping second hand/not really working speakers to the USA(I presume) may not be cost effective...
You could however try contacting Falcon Acoustics, they possibly have the last two Focal 7N4411 drive units available on the planet

Untitled Document

click page 11 for Focal!

Boscoe:
The Diameter of the DT-254`s is 110mm, too big Im afraid!
thanks anyway!

Boscoe · 26th June 2011, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juz400

I got a couple MiniDSP 2x4 units this year, using the two Naim Nap90/3`s running the Left and Right speakers from thier own Amp rather than one for LF and one for HF.
Im still using the original tweeters.

Going active has been a revelation! HF detail I never knew was there at all!
Piano`s sound wonderful now!

Im still looking to change the tweeters to see If I can get any more improvment

leaning towards the Seas 27TDFC
but If anyone else has suggestions for 104mm Diameter HF units, Im all ears :P
erickalan77:
I do still have the 7N515 drive units but shipping second hand/not really working speakers to the USA(I presume) may not be cost effective...
You could however try contacting Falcon Acoustics, they possibly have the last two Focal 7N4411 drive units available on the planet

Untitled Document

click page 11 for Focal!

Boscoe:
The Diameter of the DT-254`s is 110mm, too big Im afraid!
thanks anyway!

Ahh yes, could of sworn i read somewhere they were 104mm.

2nd August 2006, 12:12 PM	#1
juz400 diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: London	104mm Round Tweeter Replacement Hi there, I have a pair of 2way speakers that Ive had for around 6 years Yesterday I replace the Focal 7N515 bass units with Focal 7W4411 units which Im pleased with Now I think I need to replace the tweeters too. they are 104mm round, with four fixing holes. I have no idea who made them as they only have a sticker saying `THAME` on the magnets which comes up with nothing useful on the net. They are similar to the following: Vifa D27TG-35-06 Seas 25TNF Peerless HDS type 810921 Now they HAVE to be 104mm round, the cabinets are NOT made of wood and the mount is recessed for a flush fit. Could anyone recomend me a pair of tweeters that will marry up with the Focals? I have a budget of upto £200 I am running them with a NaimAudio NAC92/NAP90.3 setup, I should receive another NAP90.3 soon to Bi-Amp them to start with, hopefully going on to a MOX active setup. Many thanks in advance!

26th June 2011, 08:59 AM	#8
Boscoe diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: England	Monacor DT-254? __________________ I thought about it once, but then thought again.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
B&W Tweeter Replacement?	M5Sime	Multi-Way	4	25th January 2009 06:32 PM
What 104mm flange tweeters do I NEED to hear?	TurboFC3S	Multi-Way	8	19th July 2007 07:13 PM
Round radiating tweeter, aka "Enterprise 1" tweeter!	tubee	Multi-Way	39	13th May 2007 09:03 AM
How do I flush mount a non-round tweeter?	owdi	Multi-Way	12	13th July 2006 11:44 PM

New To Site?	Need Help?
Register to Participate Search Privacy Statement Contact Us	Frequently Asked Questions Did you forget your password? Mark Forums Read


	Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you. Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving

2nd August 2006, 04:07 PM	#2
angsuman diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Las Vegas NV	Are you looking to also change the cross-over too? since it seems thats what you'd need to do since finding a suitable "drop-in" might be hard. Why are you replacing the tweeters? are they blown? Or are you trying to upgrade by trying a different tweeter. So I assume these 2-way speakers are of the Focal brand? If so shouldn't it be a focal tweeter in there. The three tweeters you've mentioned i'm not sure what the best match would be but from the performance graphs it seems that the Peerless HDS would be the best tweeter since it has the lowest distortion of the three.

2nd August 2006, 04:30 PM	#3
BobEllis diyAudio Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Upstate NY	Seas 27TDFC and 27TBFC/G come to mind - inexpensive but excellent performers. Glad to see that you understand the new drivers are not likely to be drop in replacements. How do the W cone Focals measure compared to the N cones? I like the W cones - I'm using 6W4254s with Focal TC120-TD5s and another with Fountek JP3s. If you need active crossover boards (MOX like fixed filters plus EQ and phase correction) see the group buy Here

2nd August 2006, 10:26 PM	#4
noodle_snacks diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hobart, Tasmania	I believe most of the tweeters from seas, peerless, vifa (peerless vline, whatever) and scanspeak come with a 104mm faceplate diameter. More information about the focal's in box response etc would allow people to advise you of a tweeter choice more easily. I personally do not know anything about this woofer.

3rd August 2006, 08:02 AM	#5
juz400 diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: London	Many thanks for your replies! Angusman: I have no idea if they are Focal, no indication of manufactor on them other than the pricetag sticker with `THAME`. one is slightly damaged, not quite blown. Bobellis: The general construction of the N and W are much the same, the N having a cone thickness about double that of the W and a heavier magnet. Sound wise, Woah! what a difference! Bass still has a snappy thump to it, further up the range the speaker is so much clearer and cleaner, much more precise imaging! (almost makes my dolby pro logic decoder redundant!) Noodle snacks: Im have no idea of the in box response, The cabinets are a kind of pryamid shape with a rounded top, roughly 18L I think. (Sorry no digi camera for nice piccys) are the microphones to measure response expensive? I have a fairly decent PC, so messing around with that kind of kit could be intresting and fun!! Really, I want to kinda update the speakers overall, Im sure the response of a more modern tweeter would be a better match with the modernish Focal mid/bass driver I am intrested in the group buy thingy for the MOX crossovers but I dont have paypal or creditcard typa stuff! I have some of the transistors already from another project, where(Someone in the UK!) is a good place to get the 2SK or LSK opamps? Thanks again!

3rd August 2006, 08:48 AM	#6
BobEllis diyAudio Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Upstate NY	Looking at the response on the Focal Data Sheet I'd suggest using a tweeter that can handle 1200 Hz or so. That seems to be where the first cone mode is (the bobble in the FR and impedance curves). The Dayton RS28 with a 4th order XO would be a good choice if you could enlarge your opening to 105mm. If you don't want to mess with new cabinets, consider the Seas 27TDFC crossed at 1500 Hz. with a high order filter - 4th order or Cauer-Elliptic. The tweeter ought to handle that just fine, and it would clean up the woofer's top end. If you go higher or lower order, a notch filter for the woofer's peak is important. My preference is to keep that breakup peak 30+ dB below the summed response. This usually means 4th order and a notch with modern hard cone drivers. If you can find a Panasonic WM-61 microphone capsule, you can make a fairly accurate measurement system with an opamp and a few other parts inexpensively. PM me to work out payment arrangements if you want the group buy boards without paypal.

26th June 2011, 08:49 AM	#7
erickalan77 diyAudio Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: california	I know this is a really old post . . .do you still have and want to sell those 7N515 ? Don't listen to this guy about a node ( break up/resonance )at 1-2k just about every speaker made over 5" has a resonance at 1k...even the venerable p15wh-00. base your cross overs on the resonance that lies above 1K around 5k for most drivers lower with paper, viscious with Kevlar. . . and for the Kevlar/fiberglass W cones. . .fourth order at 3k on both your tweeters and woofers....remember to overlap the crossover point to get a -3db crossover point (fourth order are -6db at crossover freq)...then they sum to 0db . . .. ~e~

26th June 2011, 12:32 PM	#9
juz400 diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: London	I got a couple MiniDSP 2x4 units this year, using the two Naim Nap90/3`s running the Left and Right speakers from thier own Amp rather than one for LF and one for HF. Im still using the original tweeters. Going active has been a revelation! HF detail I never knew was there at all! Piano`s sound wonderful now! Im still looking to change the tweeters to see If I can get any more improvment leaning towards the Seas 27TDFC but If anyone else has suggestions for 104mm Diameter HF units, Im all ears :P erickalan77: I do still have the 7N515 drive units but shipping second hand/not really working speakers to the USA(I presume) may not be cost effective... You could however try contacting Falcon Acoustics, they possibly have the last two Focal 7N4411 drive units available on the planet Untitled Document click page 11 for Focal! Boscoe: The Diameter of the DT-254`s is 110mm, too big Im afraid! thanks anyway!

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)