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Old 30th July 2006, 07:18 PM   #1
300Z is offline 300Z  Brazil
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Default help choosing a 7" mid

Hi all,

I want to build a new set of nearfield speakers and i need some help find the right mid...

Right now i'm using Vifa PL18 (4ohm version) mated with a Dayton RS28A tweeter, using just a simple LR4 x-over at 1.6khz.
Before the PL18's i was using the Dayton RS180-8 mids and i liked the midrange on the RS180's a lot but the midbass lacked impact/attack and snap, it had the output but it just lacked impact.
While the PL18's have a bit better midbass impact it's still doesn't sound quite right but the real problem with the PL18's is the midrange sounds "hollow" and lack the detail from the RS180, with some EQ help i got to shape the FR to a somewhat smooth response and it does sound better but the detail just isnt there...

I have been looking at these drivers and since i can't go out and listen to all of them i would like to know what you all have to say about them...

18 Sound 6ND430
Seas L18RNX or P18RNX, but i'm not sure about those...
Aura NS65, low efficiency...?
B&C 8PS21 not a 7" but i think i could manage to fit it...
Or just go back to the RS180, but thinking of getting the 4ohm version instead this time around, and just live with the wimpy midbass?

The new mids will be mated with the Dayton RS28A tweeter and inicially will be powered by a SI-T amp but i'll eventually going to get a Crown XTi-1000 amp.

Also, just in case, my listening position is only ~3-4 away from the speakers if this going to matter.
And i don't necessarily need very low end extension, if can get it to play down to ~60hz that should be enough, i can just let the subwoofer pick up from there...

Thanks a bunch and sorry for the long post, I hope i provided as much info as needed.

Leo
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Old 30th July 2006, 07:28 PM   #2
infinia is offline infinia  United States
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Hi
Could you share your Xover schematic? Do you use a BSC? I know youre are using them near field, have you tried them closer to a rear wall?
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Old 30th July 2006, 08:01 PM   #3
300Z is offline 300Z  Brazil
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Hi, thanks for replying...

The x-over is just a hi and low pass LR4, no BSC or anything...

I tried the speakers in speaker stands and ~3-4ft away from the wall, it sounded almost the same, it just needed less EQ contouring on the lower midrange...

I used 1/4" closed cell foam on the front baffle and the drivers are not recessed mounted.

Leo
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Old 30th July 2006, 08:02 PM   #4
RJ is offline RJ  United States
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No wimpy bass here.
These DA175's from Dayton will literally put a hole in your chest or try to. Best bass I ever heard and felt.
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...Number=295-335

I'm currently finishing up two projects with them drivers and here is a pic of one of them - "The Quads";
Click the image to open in full size.

These also tested well at 'Zaph';
http://www.zaphaudio.com/6.5test/

So no worrys on distortion.

I'm using North's D25 tweeter's but there is crossovers for;
Seas 27tbfc and 27tdfc
North d25's
Vifa Neos
and the HI-Vi K1...
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Old 30th July 2006, 08:20 PM   #5
300Z is offline 300Z  Brazil
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I've read all the tests from John K (Zaph) and Mark K...

My problem is not with output, all the drivers i used had good output...
I had 180w for each of the RS180's and have played with the PL18's running on 320w each and it had all the output i could ask for; but tonaly both just didn't seem to sound quite right on the midbass department...

At higher levels the PL's seems to hold itself better than the RS180, it seems more dynamic while the RS180 seems compressed...

Leo
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Old 30th July 2006, 08:33 PM   #6
RJ is offline RJ  United States
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Quote:
Before the PL18's I was using the Dayton RS180-8 mids and i liked the midrange on the RS180's a lot but the midbass lacked impact/attack and snap, it had the output but it just lacked impact.
That's what I'm talking about.
The snap and attack come from the 80 to 120 hz. range. These Daytons are also smooth in the upper mids.

I also have the RS 180's & RS 225's and the bass seems to hit me like a medium-hard pillow. With the DA series they have that 'Whack'..
It makes the drums sound extraordinarily good.
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Old 30th July 2006, 08:42 PM   #7
infinia is offline infinia  United States
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Hi
BSC might add the missing bass punch you are wanting. http://www.trueaudio.com/st_diff1.htm
Also Download the edge program and see what happens to the bass frequencies with your box design.
http://www.tolvan.com/edge/
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Old 30th July 2006, 08:44 PM   #8
300Z is offline 300Z  Brazil
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But you are running 4 DA175 per side... and how many RS180's did you ran to this comparison?

I tried to dial in the midbass on the RS180's using the EQ but it didn't help much at all...

Leo
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Old 30th July 2006, 08:48 PM   #9
300Z is offline 300Z  Brazil
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Quote:
Originally posted by infinia
Hi
BSC might add the missing bass punch you are wanting. http://www.trueaudio.com/st_diff1.htm
Also Download the edge program and see what happens to the bass frequencies with your box design.
http://www.tolvan.com/edge/
Thanks, I'll look into it...

But in the mean time, any input about the other drivers i listed? Especialy the 18 Sound and the B&C?

Thanks
Leo
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Old 30th July 2006, 09:32 PM   #10
RJ is offline RJ  United States
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Yes, paper cones with high effiency motors!
Most excellent for reproducing electric guitars but they just don't have that Whack and feel of the Dayton DA175 for drums and bass guitar.

So marry the two, hence my next project.
A line array with the B&C in the middle of the array surrounded by 8 DA-175's. Mids might be RS52's with a line of 50 - 60 Dayton 3/4" Neo Tweets.

Yep, I'm a speaker nut. Been there, done that but just not quite there.
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