WMTMW Open Baffles

[AJinFLA]

I bet it sounds better than the linkwitz speaker I built

I'm sure it does LOL. I just wouldn't blame Siegfried Linkwitz' design principles like you do.
I'd place the blame squarely where it belongs. On the builder .
That's been my point all along.

cheers,

AJ

[Magnetar]

Originally posted by AJinFLA


I'm sure it does LOL. I just wouldn't blame Siegfried Linkwitz' design principles like you do.
I'd place the blame squarely where it belongs. On the builder .
That's been my point all along.

cheers,

AJ

Some Facts

Fact - you have never heard any of my speakers and have zero experiance or working concept with what I have achieved or how I have achieved it

Fact - you are a stalker that offers nothing but hot air

Fact - I have the right to place the blame where it rightfully belongs because I have have experianced the compromises

Fact - you are in this thread for one reason that should be clear to anyone that has had to go through the agony of reading it since you decided to 'participate'-

Fact - I find no reason to further communicate with you on an open forum about your stalking problem - this is not the place to argue about 'that' - email me and and provide me your phone number if you want to 'talk'

Bye Stalker

[ScottG]

AJ. & Mag.

- you DO have the ability to effectivly eradicate each others posts from your viewing..

There is a filter under your user section that allows you to do this.

I use this feature for Mac and works like a proverbial "charm".

VERY nice forum feature - wish other forums had this feature, it cuts down on "noise".

[LineSource]

Hi Magnetar,

TOTALLY agree that WMTMW is the absolute best topology using standard speakers, even for dipoles. My DIY experiments would have led me down a little different starting point. Maybe you can share where your experiments formed your choices. Thanks for sharing your education.

1) I favor monopole tweeters, even on dipoles, as I find the short wavelength rear waves reflected off rear and side surfaces fuzzy-up the sound stage.

2) I have never been able to get a uniform vertical soundstage on a WMTMW with a ribbon tweeter. Only a flush mounted dome with thick felt creates the correct presentation as the ear moves up and down in the vertical plane. Measurements and ears seem to agree on this for me, but I’ve never tried an AMT.

3) The baffle seems wide enough to cancel the 330 Hz midrange dipole wavelength if the midrange speakers are placed very near the center of the baffle. Moving the M's near one edge would seem to create an uneven response when one side loses dipole cancellation higher than the other. A challenging crossover.

4) I only design 3-way speakers and try to put as much of the human voice range on the midrange speaker, so I would have crossed the M lower even it a steeper slope was needed.

[EC8010]

AJinFLA and Magnetar: Gentlemen, please calm down. I'm sure you are both very excited by your respective loudspeakers and think that they wipe the floor with the competition. Please explain why this is so without losing your dignity by including personal attacks. We have our eye on this thread...

[AJinFLA]

EC, All in good fun from my perspective

TOTALLY agree that WMTMW is the absolute best topology using standard speakers, even for dipoles

"I" don't like MTM's vertical and off-axis chaos. I much prefer a more point source like broadcast of power, like a coaxial tweeter/midrange arrangement and if you want to flank it with woofers above and below, I'm all for that also.

cheers,

AJ

[MJK]

All in good fun from my perspective

It does not come across that way from where I sit.

I am not a big fan of Magnetar, he has slammed me in the past on another forum. His posts, and his buddy's posts, caused me to stop posting on that forum. My choice.

You have shown he changes his position on speaker design over time. So have I, I have reversed or modified things in my old posts more than once. I chalk it up to learning.

No matter what my past negative experience is with Magnetar, I find his current design interesting and his goals fairly reasonable. So I stop worrying about the past, read, and think.

In my opinion, your posts add no value to the discussion. If you have a technical position that is counter to what he is presenting by all means share it and provide a technical rational. Do not state speculation as facts, provide a verbal arguement that convinces the reader of the correctness of your observation(s). After reading your posts above, and your referenced posts, I really did not find contributions just attacks. For me that reduces your credibility significantly. It would be much more effective if you provided something constructive in your posts that advances understanding of your point of view.

[Magnetar]

Originally posted by LineSource
Hi Magnetar,

TOTALLY agree that WMTMW is the absolute best topology using standard speakers, even for dipoles. My DIY experiments would have led me down a little different starting point. Maybe you can share where your experiments formed your choices. Thanks for sharing your education.

1) I favor monopole tweeters, even on dipoles, as I find the short wavelength rear waves reflected off rear and side surfaces fuzzy-up the sound stage.

2) I have never been able to get a uniform vertical soundstage on a WMTMW with a ribbon tweeter. Only a flush mounted dome with thick felt creates the correct presentation as the ear moves up and down in the vertical plane. Measurements and ears seem to agree on this for me, but I’ve never tried an AMT.

3) The baffle seems wide enough to cancel the 330 Hz midrange dipole wavelength if the midrange speakers are placed very near the center of the baffle. Moving the M's near one edge would seem to create an uneven response when one side loses dipole cancellation higher than the other. A challenging crossover.

4) I only design 3-way speakers and try to put as much of the human voice range on the midrange speaker, so I would have crossed the M lower even it a steeper slope was needed.

I already had some Heils and like them a lot above 3k - To use them below 3K you should notch out the peak that is centered around 2.5k. The back wave behind these is pretty well damped with two 24" diameter bass traps on each side and acoustic foam.With a hard surface behind the speaker I'd try dampening the back wave but no need IMO with the way they're setup. The Heils do have a problem with vertical dispersion - it does however mate well with the big 10" MTM and covers the whole listening area in my room sitting or standing well when the speaker is tilted a little back like I have it. There is a front projector unit and coffee table in front of where we listen and having the directional character of the Heil helps reflections. The mids work fine closer to the baffle edge. I can't decide if I like them to the inside or outside though.

I agree with tryng to cover a wide range with a mid, however in an MTM you want to keep the driver spacing and crossover frequencies matched - The Heil requires 6" of vertical spacing and I'm using 10" mids -I have asked 4 people now to try and identify the crossover points and all have guessed around 100 for the bass and 3k for the highs - this tells me I have a wide range midrange character (good) - using 4th order electronic crossovers with adjustable Q's can give excellent seamless crossovers. It's really hard to say where these are crossed over by just listening - I image if these same 4 people that commented did it blindly without seeing the big speakers first they would have been all over the map.

The JBL 2123's are very good sounding linear drivers with excellent dynamics and low distortion- but because of their high efficiency and huge motors and low QTS they really aren't the best driver below 300 Hz (unless horn loaded) even in a tuned box. I can adjust the crossover point very easily by changing out some resistors. 330 and 1400 is the best compromise after trying maybe 10 different frequencies for both the mid and treble.

[Magnetar]

Originally posted by EC8010


AJinFLA and Magnetar: Gentlemen, please calm down. I'm sure you are both very excited by your respective loudspeakers and think that they wipe the floor with the competition. Please explain why this is so without losing your dignity by including personal attacks. We have our eye on this thread...

No problem.

[AJinFLA]

In my opinion, your posts add no value to the discussion. If you have a technical position that is counter to what he is presenting by all means share it and provide a technical rational. Do not state speculation as facts, provide a verbal arguement that convinces the reader of the correctness of your observation(s). After reading your posts above, and your referenced posts, I really did not find contributions just attacks. For me that reduces your credibility significantly. It would be much more effective if you provided something constructive in your posts that advances understanding of your point of view.

You can call me a Siegfried Linkwitz Basher basher. I'm ok with that. As long as the moderators don't think I have overstepped my bounds, that will be my position.
I find it difficult to formulate a comprehensive technical rebuttal to his design based on just his pictures. Perhaps you are ascertaining more info from them than I am.
The design itself looks reasonable (albeit extremly large), especially since its a near full ranged Open Baffle dipole - just like SL espouses. My favorites too.
Like I said

Can't say things haven't taken a turn for the better LOL. Better late than never I suppose.

I meant that sincerely.

cheers,

AJ