what is a Long-throw speaker and what think ye of this?

ark · 28th June 2006, 04:00 PM

http://www.assistanceaudio.com/09_kits.html

I keep looking for a definiton for "long-throw" and "short-throw" and coming up empty.. the term is used for horn kits like the one above, and for puny subwoofers facing the floor...

can anyone help clarify?

And what do you think of the kit above?
I am interested in using this BMS coaxial horn and saw this kit.

I wonder how it would be in the apartment?
What effect would this woofer horn have. it must cut out at 100hz? based on the size? so wouldn't the frequency response hump, and fall off immediatly afterwards?

I'm trying to devise a system for around 2500 that goes from 22khz to 50hz or lower if possible..

Live in an aparment.

don't mind the size (unmarried)..

like low volume listening with lots of detail, and resoulution.

Also on my list are:

Jordan Line Array, with a sub.
Supravox 215 GMF and their new dome tweeter, possibly two 215s in a d'appolito config.
Supravox 215 field coil.

Supravox 400 field coil (26hz) with either the jordan jx53 (or 4 of them) on top, or a horn.. like the BMS..

Thoughts on the kit?
the differences of the other options?

I live about 5hrs from any city so.. never get to audition..
plan to build and live with it for a while, or build, and move to a bigger apt... = )

Oh.. current sytem..
E-sound E5 signature
Super-T Amp
Saba green cones in approx 2ftx3ft open baffles; Ohm Walsh2's (old pair i found at the thrift shop here)

Thanks!

PS.. anyone from Montreal? I''m thinking of moving there.

sreten · 28th June 2006, 04:58 PM

Hi,

A short throw system has wide dispersion. Typical for a small PA.
Typically doesn't use front horns on the bass units, and if a horn
is used in the on the tweeter typically has wide dispersion.
Also typical for a domestic loudspeaker.

A long throw system has narrow dispersion and is used to project
sound at a good level towards the back of the audience. Typically
does have front horn loaded bass units and narrow horn tweeters.

A long throw system is typically used combined with a short throw
system, the short throw system covering the audience at the front.

A medium throw system suits a smaller area that a long throw
would not, but you would probably still need the short throw.

Long throw is also used to describe the excursion of bass drivers.

/sreten.

Tenson · 28th June 2006, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sreten

Long throw is also used to describe the excursion of bass drivers.

/sreten.

I'm glad you said that I thought I was going mad!

ark · 29th June 2006, 02:46 AM

"Long throw is also used to describe the excursion of bass drivers."

Aha! those drivers the bug the heck out of me moving in an out so much... like some dude sucking in his stomach and sticking it back out again... looks distorted even if it might not sound that way.

Although.. i had some AR2's that did that, but sounded great.

Ok ok..

So.. your saying these long throws would be a dog in my 12x16 ft room?

Any ideas on my other considerations?

kelticwizard · 29th June 2006, 03:45 AM

For woofers 8" and above:

The old definition of "long throw" used to be about 1/4" inch, (6 mm), in each direction, 1/2", (12 mm), peak to peak.

Since the eighties, excusion has raised quite a bit in bass drivers. There are a few drivers which have a 3/8", (10 mm), excursion that would probably be considered long throw, if you want to be generous. But most long throw drivers are now about 1/2", (12 mm), in each direction-or 1", (25 mm), peak to peak. There are even a fair amount of bass drivers which go to 3/4", (17 mm), and even 1", (25 mm), in each direction.

So to sum up, for bass drivers 8" or above, 1/2"-12 mm-is probably the minimum excursion to qualify as long throw.

sreten · 29th June 2006, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ark

Ok ok..
So.. your saying these long throws would be a dog in my 12x16 ft room?
Any ideas on my other considerations?

Hi,

Yes.

What amplifier do you have ? Do you really need very high efficiency ?

From the sound of it I'd checkout the Basszilla platinum version :

http://www.blackdahlia.com/html/tip_43.html

/sreten.

ark · 29th June 2006, 03:43 PM

eastsound e5 signature cdp
sonic impact suprer t-amp..

once i get the speakers i want to go back and build a tube amp to replace the super t..

so high efficiency is a must, along with relative simplicity.
im really drawn to the choices above, just cant decide which to try first.

tinitus · 29th June 2006, 06:39 PM

How about these speakers - looks like kind of PA related but built for home use

http://pispeakers.com/contents.html

ark · 30th June 2006, 02:47 AM

ah! these pi speakers are interesing thanks! similar in shape and form to those big shindo field coils..
i was thinking about trying to recreate something like these or the shindo boxes with the supravox 400- field coils and some horn up top, or one of those emt tweeters..

thanks for the ideas and imput everyone.

sreten · 30th June 2006, 10:21 AM

Hi,

unless you having measuring equipment etc. you will be wasting your money.

Build something documented and measured like one of the versions
of the Basszilla or something properly designed like the PI speakers.

The drive units do not determine the end result, the design does.

/sreten.

28th June 2006, 04:00 PM	#1
ark diyAudio Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Arcata, CA	what is a Long-throw speaker and what think ye of this? http://www.assistanceaudio.com/09_kits.html I keep looking for a definiton for "long-throw" and "short-throw" and coming up empty.. the term is used for horn kits like the one above, and for puny subwoofers facing the floor... can anyone help clarify? And what do you think of the kit above? I am interested in using this BMS coaxial horn and saw this kit. I wonder how it would be in the apartment? What effect would this woofer horn have. it must cut out at 100hz? based on the size? so wouldn't the frequency response hump, and fall off immediatly afterwards? I'm trying to devise a system for around 2500 that goes from 22khz to 50hz or lower if possible.. Live in an aparment. don't mind the size (unmarried).. like low volume listening with lots of detail, and resoulution. Also on my list are: Jordan Line Array, with a sub. Supravox 215 GMF and their new dome tweeter, possibly two 215s in a d'appolito config. Supravox 215 field coil. Supravox 400 field coil (26hz) with either the jordan jx53 (or 4 of them) on top, or a horn.. like the BMS.. Thoughts on the kit? the differences of the other options? I live about 5hrs from any city so.. never get to audition.. plan to build and live with it for a while, or build, and move to a bigger apt... = ) Oh.. current sytem.. E-sound E5 signature Super-T Amp Saba green cones in approx 2ftx3ft open baffles; Ohm Walsh2's (old pair i found at the thrift shop here) Thanks! PS.. anyone from Montreal? I''m thinking of moving there.

29th June 2006, 03:45 AM	#5
kelticwizard diyAudio Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Connecticut, The Nutmeg State	For woofers 8" and above: The old definition of "long throw" used to be about 1/4" inch, (6 mm), in each direction, 1/2", (12 mm), peak to peak. Since the eighties, excusion has raised quite a bit in bass drivers. There are a few drivers which have a 3/8", (10 mm), excursion that would probably be considered long throw, if you want to be generous. But most long throw drivers are now about 1/2", (12 mm), in each direction-or 1", (25 mm), peak to peak. There are even a fair amount of bass drivers which go to 3/4", (17 mm), and even 1", (25 mm), in each direction. So to sum up, for bass drivers 8" or above, 1/2"-12 mm-is probably the minimum excursion to qualify as long throw. __________________ "A friend will help you move. A really good friend will help you move a body." -Anonymous

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28th June 2006, 04:58 PM	#2
sreten diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Brighton UK	Hi, A short throw system has wide dispersion. Typical for a small PA. Typically doesn't use front horns on the bass units, and if a horn is used in the on the tweeter typically has wide dispersion. Also typical for a domestic loudspeaker. A long throw system has narrow dispersion and is used to project sound at a good level towards the back of the audience. Typically does have front horn loaded bass units and narrow horn tweeters. A long throw system is typically used combined with a short throw system, the short throw system covering the audience at the front. A medium throw system suits a smaller area that a long throw would not, but you would probably still need the short throw. Long throw is also used to describe the excursion of bass drivers. /sreten.

29th June 2006, 02:46 AM	#4
ark diyAudio Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Arcata, CA	"Long throw is also used to describe the excursion of bass drivers." Aha! those drivers the bug the heck out of me moving in an out so much... like some dude sucking in his stomach and sticking it back out again... looks distorted even if it might not sound that way. Although.. i had some AR2's that did that, but sounded great. Ok ok.. So.. your saying these long throws would be a dog in my 12x16 ft room? Any ideas on my other considerations?

29th June 2006, 03:43 PM	#7
ark diyAudio Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Arcata, CA	eastsound e5 signature cdp sonic impact suprer t-amp.. once i get the speakers i want to go back and build a tube amp to replace the super t.. so high efficiency is a must, along with relative simplicity. im really drawn to the choices above, just cant decide which to try first.

29th June 2006, 06:39 PM	#8
tinitus diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2005	How about these speakers - looks like kind of PA related but built for home use http://pispeakers.com/contents.html

30th June 2006, 02:47 AM	#9
ark diyAudio Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Arcata, CA	ah! these pi speakers are interesing thanks! similar in shape and form to those big shindo field coils.. i was thinking about trying to recreate something like these or the shindo boxes with the supravox 400- field coils and some horn up top, or one of those emt tweeters.. thanks for the ideas and imput everyone.

30th June 2006, 10:21 AM	#10
sreten diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Brighton UK	Hi, unless you having measuring equipment etc. you will be wasting your money. Build something documented and measured like one of the versions of the Basszilla or something properly designed like the PI speakers. The drive units do not determine the end result, the design does. /sreten.

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