Am now a believer in pro amps

Status
This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.
I just switched out my bass amp from a pioneer elite to a soundscraftman. With more power on tap (450wx2 @4ohm), my dipole subs no longer bottom out and have much more impact (louder) than before. With the pioneer elite, I nener turned the gains more than half way, was it causing distortions and drove the subs to bottom out? I'm not too sure. But the newer amp seems to have much more control on the bottom end. The dipole bass now sounds even more accurate than before.

Tomorrow, I'm picking up another amp. It'll be an onkyo m-501. I'll see how this amp measures up to the soundcraftsman.
 
Not much of a surprise. Pro amps are by no mans as bad as some might have you believe. It's just hifi snobbery, and well worth ignoring. This is often the gear that albums are mixed and enginnered with after all. If it's good enough to create it, I can't see why on Earth it shouldn't be good enough to reproduce it too. As a bonus, pro amps are usually bomb-proof, have very good measured performance (so they should!) and hefty power supplies.
 
diyAudio Member
Joined 2004
Tenson said:
I have to agree though. I got a pair of Alesis RA500 amps to fill in until I could afford better. I had an active Bryston set-up before. I don't feel the need to change them though! I think I will just add some more PSU caps so they have more power on tap for large transients.

Wow

That's some price difference between the Alesis and Bryston.

I've had quite a few amps in the past year and a good amp is a good amp, its very rare to find an amp that actually has some objectionable nature to it that renders it useless.

What I've heard between all the different amps I've owned recently is subtle changes in presentation, not an order of difference that would confidently allow me to recommend one over the others with absolute certainty. Well maybe not, the only one that really seems to standout is the Chord SPM1200E with a really fast, electric and natural sound to it. The others, which were predominately class A/B DIY designs, were similar but don't quite have the same attention grabbing nature. Some might consider the Chords to be lean sounding and I'd agree with this to some extent.

The only one I really had a couple of issues with was the LM3875 and LM3886 chipamps. Although even these mega cheap amps have notable qualities if used with care.

So to me, its very likely that most amps sound similar, especially of the same class ie. A, A/B, D etc. And that you don't have to spend a fortune to get good performance.
 
Just to balance out this thread a bit, I tried my JBL 6260 amp on a pair of b&w dm602's, and it sounded worse than the audiolab 8000a I was normally using.

Have just bought a pair of samson servo 300 amps to run my surrounds though, as they're low sensitivity 4 ohm speakers, and need some power.

Would be intersting to try the '1 poweramp per driver' type setup that Thylanter has hinted at, with some good recent pro stuff.

Rob
 
RobWells said:
Would be intersting to try the '1 poweramp per driver' type setup that Thylanter has hinted at, with some good recent pro stuff.

Rob [/B]

I did this in 1986 with my car install, one 2 channel Zapco
model 200 in bridge mode {200w monoblock} per driver,
80v headroom {not factoring in losses} . Pretty cool 20 years ago,
probably boring today because you can get more for less money.

I'm going to do 260v headroom {not factoring in losses} per
groups of drivers in an array {mids/tweeters} and 320v
headroom for woofers, because you can drive lower impedance
with a good proamp so you don't need 1 driver per monoblock.

Proamps are the best secret in audio if you choose wisely
as there are build quality issues, some better than others
in that respect.
 
pinkmouse said:
The only problem of using pro amps that I can see is that it's not as satisfying as building your own. ;)

But if you bi-amp or tri-amp, you can just use the pro amps for bass, and build something for the mid and treble. Considering the cost of building something like a Behringer EP-2500 (2400W) for bass when you can get one on Ebay for like $225, I think pro amp is a pretty good option.
 
pinkmouse said:
The only problem of using pro amps that I can see is that it's not as satisfying as building your own. ;)

It's hard to build your own when the cost to build
greatly exceeds to the cost to buy *if* you want similar
build quality.

For instance, my monster PCB layout, 4 layer 28 power
transistor 1kw amp will cost a few thousand just to get
PCB's made to be on the same level as high end audio
with great build quality... So, now you have a monster amp,
cool, but on the same token I can design a audio system using
off the shelf items for much less. If the system speakers
are not ultra demanding, I can use eight $250 proamps for
a 7.1 HT system where each amp is bridged for uber headroom,
$2k cost. Cheaper than my uber amp PCB's, imagine the
heatsink extrusion costs, component costs, chassis, transformer,
yikes.

I like DIY amps like the rest and if money is no object,
there is satifaction in creating this. An alternative that might
give you greater satisfaction is to DIY speakers and just
buy the amps as the reward is greater without punishing
your wallet.

That's why I abandonded my DIY amp quest, not worth it
unless I get rich and it would make a nice hobby for a bored
person.

People on the solid state forum keep seeing DIY amps
to improve their sound when in fact, they are playing
golf with the wrong set of sticks. They should build amps
for pleasure and results, but the SQ of the sound system is
mainly determined by the speakers as long as the amp
has the power to drive the speakers well.
 
I like DIY amps like the rest and if money is no object,
there is satifaction for creating this. An alternative that might
give you greater satisfaction is to DIY speakers and just
buy the amps as the reward is greater without punishing
your wallet.

That's why I abandonded my DIY amp quest, not worth it
unless I get rich and it would make a nice hobby for a bored
person. [/B]


But you can't get good SET amps cheap; so building your own is not a bad option.
 
diyAudio Member
Joined 2004
pinkmouse said:
The only problem of using pro amps that I can see is that it's not as satisfying as building your own. ;)

It great fun to build the amps and associated electronics but I always get stuck on the enclosures. Its a square box FFS but can I hell as like finish one that I'm happy with.

Because I love the electronics assembly I've decided that if I'm going to ever actually have a 'finished' amplifier I'm going to have to resort to buying enclosures.

I've found a couple of manufacturers of note and if it weren't for shipping costs they'd be very reasonably priced in light of the effort and tooling required to roll your own to the same standards. For me its worth spending a few quid more to avoid ever having to deal with the metal working issues I have. :)
 
I can only speak from my experience of the Behringer EP-2500 that I have: I replace the stock fan with a silenx super quiet fan, you can't hear the fan if you are 10 feet away.

The transformer is kind of tiny. So someone can always modify it with huge transformers plus choke input filters.
 
Status
This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.