Sonical signatures, myth or reality ?

[Jussi]

Well, intresting subject. At least to me...

Are dynamic drivers sonical signatures a real thing, factor X, not dependent on measurable variables and implementation of the system... Or are they a myth and just a complicated mix of known variables?

Personally I've noticed that different speakers have different "drive" when played. Some sound ok, balance is nice, details rich, good dynamics, nice clarity. And still speaker sounds like it has handbrake on or something. It just doesn't come alive...

Ok, I know amps, sources and other equipment have pretty much to say about this thing but are there differences in the speakers themselves?

Certain distorsion variables can create false image of resolution, ultra-smooth response can sound dull.. But how about efficiency, acceleration factor, cone material (which also distributes to on/off axis behavior, distorsion, waterfall and so on), cabinet solutions (horn, vented, closed, t-line) etc ?

Jussi

[SY]

Or are they a myth and just a complicated mix of known variables?

They are indeed a complicated mix of known and measurable variables but that doesn't make them a myth. Quite the contrary.

[janneman]

Indeed. It stands to reason that the speaker pecularities are FAR more pronounced than any thing comparable from a competently designed electronic component in the chain. Add to that the room influences and you really have a can of worms!

Jan Didden

[soongsc]

It's not a myth. It's just how you measure and what you look for in the data to distinguish between different signatures. Like a doctor that uses instruments to daignos a patient. Different doctors can look at the same data and come up with a different opinoin. When you gradually get into it, it's actually fun.

[cotdt]

I'm sure it can be measured, but harmonic distortion and frequency response is NOT enough to understand why a driver sounds the way it does, although in theory it is enough.

[SY]

Nope, it's not enough even in theory. You certainly need to know on and off axis frequency response; nature, frequency and Q of breakup modes; change in response with temperature; change in level and distribution of harmonics with level...

[cotdt]

Thanks SY, that is very reasonable. But do you think even knowing those will be enough to judge a speaker's sound signature?

[soongsc]

Basically, if your test signals are only sine waves, you are somewhat limited to what you can see. When you look at frequency response plots, it's necessary to look at phase plots in combination. Data should not be smoothed, zoom into a resolution of 1db. Then identify the areas of interest for specific frequencies.

[Jussi]

Intresting posts.

What do you think, are all "positive" things in speakers performance purely related to perfection in measurable variables?

Nicely behaving on and off axis response, low distorsion, no breakups in passband...

For example the systems I've heard so far Seas Excels have pretty smooth, clean and neutral presentation but they don't sound that "live" than some other systems. Is this flaw in the implementation or just plain truth of measurably good performance (which means more alive system is worse in measurable variables and things that make it alive are actually just coloration) ?

Jussi

[soongsc]

I don't think anyone has learned all, but everyone probably has learned a part good enough to make more educated judgement. There are certainly lots of things that we don't have control over.

When we think something does not sound live, it's hard to determine whether it's the original recording or the speaker. High damping of cone resonances can make sound a little dead. This is because the timbre and reverberation can be damped out at the lower levels making the sound a bit dead. If the cone is not damped well enough, then the resonances will mix with the timbre and reverberation, causing a specific sonic signature depending on the various modes of the cone. These can be interpreted from most capability that tools like PRAXIS has if you know how to corelate the information.