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Old 28th May 2006, 04:22 PM   #21
Notax is offline Notax  Montenegro
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Scan-Speak 18W/4531G0 - 4 Ohm, 90 dB

18w4531g0

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Old 28th May 2006, 04:27 PM   #22
cotdt is offline cotdt  United States
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the smaller, lighter midranges sound better subjectively, maybe because they have much lighter cones. the big 8" midranges are usually only good crossed at around 1.3kHz, so I would look at 5" or 6" midranges, and a different woofer, such as the Dayton RSS315HF.
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Old 28th May 2006, 04:49 PM   #23
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yes, as is pointing cotdt, using an 8" driver for a midrange, 2khz is a little high, especially if you don't take care of power response.

+ I don't know the raal ribbons but zaph pointed out in his article on ribbons that 2 khz is a little low for most ribbon's crossover. I remember some people knew them around here, maybe ScottG ...

all in all, wanting bass sealed to 20hz + ribbon tweeter, a 4 way seems more appropriate to me. If you were using some sort of waveguide on your ribbon, or some dome tweeters like the seas, using an 8" mid would be less of a problem of course.

It doesn't mean that it can't be done, it just means that it will be difficult to achieve.

I would aim towards 8" poly or paper, as at 2khz you are already in the range of breakup for many 8" cones, you prefer to have the soft breakup. No alu, magnesium and such then.

Or i would use a good 6" that is doing 100 hz sealed, there are plenty of them. The Peerless V-line XG18 is doing fine, and is having very good distortions figures. You may have a little distortion around 150 hz due to the LAB12. I would say that in this driver class, a dayton aluminium sub would be better quality.
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Old 28th May 2006, 05:08 PM   #24
Notax is offline Notax  Montenegro
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nemophyle

+ I don't know the raal ribbons but zaph pointed out in his article on ribbons that 2 khz is a little low for most ribbon's crossover. I remember some people knew them around here, maybe ScottG ...

[/B]
Not for this ones.

RAAL

140-15D lowest at 1.6 kHz, and 70-10 lowest at 2 kHz.
Big ribbon units. 140-15D have Sd of 21 cm2. There is meauserments at the site, too.
I listen many of different (before) versions of this units. And it sounds fantastic. Its another world from dinamic calote tweeter. More dinamics, details, more air....
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Old 28th May 2006, 06:09 PM   #25
Tenson is offline Tenson  United Kingdom
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I'm looking at the 140-15D which can cross at 1.6KHz 4th order. I said 2Khz just to make sure.

I think a 6" would do well, but the SPL at 100Hz is a bit limited in a closed box. 8" should be okay with beaming I think, probably starts to kick in around just over 2KHz.

Why do you think a smaller woofer is a better midrange? Larger woofers (as long as beaming isn't a problem) will have lower IMD, be more dynamic and faster (they don't have to move as far). Surely they also have lowered other distortions because it won't stress them as much. Is this not the case?

Ahh well... that Dayton woofer does look rather nice. Smooth response up to about 400Hz AND equal SPL capabilities to the Emience Lab12. Are these specs believable? How high could it be used in real life?

If it can cross around 200Hz then I would be happy with one of the smaller drivers, probably the Accuton as I have heard those and was very impressed.
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Old 28th May 2006, 06:28 PM   #26
cotdt is offline cotdt  United States
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Everyone here is recommending a 5-6" due to personal experiences. Why not just try them all? It's the most surefire way to make your selection.

In my experience, it's the smaller woofers that give that "fast bass". Bigger almost always has lower nonlinear distortion than smaller, but at 100Hz the smaller ones can still do quite well and subjectively gives more punch. Most 6" woofers can go down cleanly to 70Hz and extend to 45Hz. A little bit of bass muddiness is fine and hard to notice, while the midrange quality really stands out.

Another advice is that low odd-order nonlinear distortion and low Le seems to correspond to how detailed a midrange sounds, the other measurements don't correspond very well to subjective interpretation and I would just ignore them. The Peerless Exclusives have much lower measured Le than published specs, however.
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Old 28th May 2006, 06:30 PM   #27
Tenson is offline Tenson  United Kingdom
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I can't afford to buy them all, they are expensive drivers! I would surely make a considerable loss trying to sell them on.
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Old 28th May 2006, 06:48 PM   #28
reins is offline reins  Germany
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tenson

Sounds like the Scan-Speak 21W-8554 to me?
What about the clone?
I made very good expirence with Usher 8137a in the range between 150Hz and 1.6kHz

Stephan
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Old 28th May 2006, 07:00 PM   #29
Tenson is offline Tenson  United Kingdom
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It certainly looks more flash! The break-up seems less controlled though.

If the Dayton subwoofer is usable cleanly for a 200Hz Xover point then I am happy to use the Accuton or Revelator I think.
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Old 28th May 2006, 07:16 PM   #30
Notax is offline Notax  Montenegro
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tenson

I think a 6" would do well, but the SPL at 100Hz is a bit limited in a closed box. 8" should be okay with beaming I think, probably starts to kick in around just over 2KHz.


6" by Audio Technology is more like other 7". Sd=174 cm2.
5" by Audio Technology is like 6" at others. Sd= 137 cm2.

Ideal size for 2-way and for this purpose (100Hz-2kHz) is 6H52 17 06 with Sd=174 cm2 and Mms=16.5 gr, great magnet and voice-coile, fantastic basket etc.
Scan-Speak 18W/4531G0 (4 Ohm, 89.5 dB)) or 18W/8531G0 (8 Ohm, 87.5 dB) is great unit ,too. Sd=150 cm2, Mms=17.5 gr.
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